Graduation??

[morgan180]

It seems to me that this forum, for the most part, goes through a "turnover" of sorts every 4 months. I think eastbay alluded to it when I first joined, and now I am noticing the exact same phenomenon. The posters that were the veterans when I first joined now rarely post, and they have been replaced by newer posters.

What I am wondering is when does a person "graduate" the STT forum? Is there a point that you hit that you feel that you have extracted maximum value out of the forum and feel that your time is spent in better places? Is there a corallary that there is a maximum amount to learn about the SNG structure? Is that the reason we seem to cover the same ground over and over? (Not the game of poker - this is limitless based on your opponents.) I'd like to hear from the old timers that are infrequent posters now (who used to post constantly) as well as the ones that have stuck around (through wave after wave, I'm sure).

[Voltron87]

I thought I graduated a bit ago, and in many ways I did. But posting even relatively simple things will help you understand the game better. Analyzing situations that are even fairly straightforward while not in game will increase your understanding on the game as a whole, and are not a waste. I definitely think there is value in analyzing and explaining relatively simple situations.

[Phil Van Sexton]

I left for a while to play other games. I left SNGs, not the Sng forum.

I think many people get bored of SnGs after a while and need a break. If you can beat the SnGs, you can certainly beat the ring games too, so it's likely best to switch it up if you lose motivation.

[Degen]

"If you can beat the SnGs, you can certainly beat the ring games too"

I don't know about that one. I do well in the SNG's but i'm slightly ahead of break even in the ring games. The SNG's control the game in so many ways that ring games require will power to do.

Also if a person is an expert blind stealer they can easily beat SNG's...but this skill is much less important in ring games. I find that in the ring games much more 'feel' is required. Here the answer is usally either 'push' or 'fold PF'...not so in ring games IMO.

If you or others has any tips on how to apply SNG skill to ring games I'm all ears.


Degen

[gumpzilla]

I suspect that a large part of it is that SNGs are a fairly narrow form of poker. Many people post because it helps them articulate how they think about certain poker situations. After a few months of posting about SNGs, you've probably thought about enough SNG situations to have a pretty good understanding of how to go about playing 99.5% of the hands you're in. And then there's a lot less incentive to post. So, in other words, I agree with your assessments of the situation.

I've also been noticing that (to me, anyway) this forum has been feeling somewhat stale recently. The content that has been appearing has been less interesting to me. Whether this is just my interests changing, my having read enough posts or the actual content going down is hard to say. But maybe that has something to do with it as well.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect that a large part of it is that SNGs are a fairly narrow form of poker. Many people post because it helps them articulate how they think about certain poker situations. After a few months of posting about SNGs, you've probably thought about enough SNG situations to have a pretty good understanding of how to go about playing 99.5% of the hands you're in.

[/ QUOTE ]

When most people think this, they're wrong. Or at least they won't handle perfectly those situations they think they understand 100% while 4 tabling, 3 hours in.

[gumpzilla]

There is a huge difference between the understanding and the execution. View the ever-popular debates along the lines of "If Sklansky is so smart, why isn't he crushing The Big Game?" How well you do 4 tabling is certainly going to be correlated with your SNG understanding, but there are clearly some other factors that are going to be involved as well.

Also, what's the basis for your pronouncement?

[Voltron87]

My basis is my experience. A while ago I was thinking "I understand this stuff, push here, push there, fold that" but I was making a couple mistakes which made a difference. Posting on 2+2 helps you understand everything better, there are things you see when you think about a post that you don't when you play a game.

My comment was directed at you personally, I have no idea, but I know there are a significant number of people who think they understand SNGs well and are above reading 90% of this forum's posts but they are wrong.

[gumpzilla]

So your argument was based on your personal sample size of one, but then you go on to again assert things about the thoughts and ideas of "a significant number" of people without much evidence. You'll forgive me if this seems shaky to me.

How many times do you think I should be reading about sustainable ROIs? How many hands with titles like (to make up something representative) "Tricky hand on the bubble: push or fold?" do I need to read? Clearly there's no universal answer to this. But I find that I'm rarely getting anything insightful when I read such threads anymore. If you are, great. And surely others are as well. But I'm not, and I suspect there are others who feel the same way. This was my conjecture as to why one would see high turnover in this forum.

[1C5]

people get bored. I have played less than 500 SnGs and have gotten bored and annoyed a couple times already.

And when the summer hits I will be on the golf course more than the poker table. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[bball904]

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect that a large part of it is that SNGs are a fairly narrow form of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

This lone statement sums it up. There is only so much you can discuss when it comes to play tight early and go maniac level 5 on. It does get very boring when the forum is dominated by should I call/push/fold this hand. Most of those decisions discussed here are borderline that will not have that big of impact on ROI anyway and not worth suffering through the debates.

Fortunately there still is an occasional interesting post flop post here mixed amongst the clutter.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
If you can beat the SnGs, you can certainly beat the ring games too

[/ QUOTE ]

That has been my experience as well. As you begin to approach these SNGs other than just push or fold (me just 3 weeks ago), you'll find the skills necessary to play cash games.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you can beat the SnGs, you can certainly beat the ring games too

[/ QUOTE ]

That has been my experience as well. As you begin to approach these SNGs other than just push or fold (me just 3 weeks ago), you'll find the skills necessary to play cash games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think most people play/ed limit/nl ring before playing SNGs and their post flop play is already "mature", its just a matter of adjusting to the SNG format...getting its basic concepts down...but within those precepts, their preexisting "poker playing" abilities help them loads. It IS poker after all and many/most of the same laws apply.

I used to play pool (gamble, compete etc...) then i went to Finland and my buddy showed me Snooker...it was foriegn to me, but I kicked his ass having never played...loose analogy but...

my point is, I think better SNG players had a ring background bc they have a great foundation to work on...if you're learning the other way around there's a slower learning curve IMO.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
...if you're learning the other way around there's a slower learning curve IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that describes me. I learned SNGs first. Scuba

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that this forum, for the most part, goes through a "turnover" of sorts every 4 months.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's funny. I've been here exactly 4 months now. I have found myself in more "discussions" the past 2 weeks with the newer forum members. Culminating today with a poster who was so adamant his position was right. When I finally did the math, his response was "that's way over my head, but..."

I can see why posters are ready to move on. I feel lucky some of them had stuck around to teach me. Thanks.

Scuba