QQ hand. Giving a free card,checking w/ outs or inducing a bluff?

[Barry]

This one sparked a little discussion with another 2+2'er at the table. As usual Party 15/30

I have Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif in MP.

2 folds, EP raises (Villian is a LAG 42/15/1.5 for the PT types), I 3 bet, folded to EP who calls.

Flop is KJT all /images/graemlins/spade.gif's

Check, bet, call.

Turn is 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

check, I check

River is 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Bet, call.

[dankhank]

only reason not to bet the turn is if you seriously fear a check-raise. if he calls the turn you can just check the river if you don't feel good about your hand then.

and of course you have to raise this river.

[Senor Choppy]

I like betting the turn, but don't hate checking.

I don't get the river call. I doubt this type of opponent would check-call with a royal draw on the flop. If he was tighter, you might not get a call from a worse hand by raising, but this guy is probably paying off with any piece of the board.

[BigSkiRace]

If I am wrong can some one please why my logic is wrong on this I would, bet, 3 bet the flop. Bet turn if I get raised I 3 bet, bet river, call raise. Im firing with the amount of outs I have, on every street

[Barry]

On the flop, he checked, I bet, he called.

[stoxtrader]

you made the second nut flush and only called vs an aggressive player?

I think there is value in a river raise.

[philnewall]

Given that you checked the turn, raising the river seems mandatory. Bet the turn, you've just got so many possibilities working for you that a check-raised isn't something to massively fear, although it might be ok if the pot was smaller.

[AviD]

[ QUOTE ]
This one sparked a little discussion with another 2+2'er at the table. As usual Party 15/30

I have Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif in MP.

2 folds, EP raises (Villian is a LAG 42/15/1.5 for the PT types), I 3 bet, folded to EP who calls.

Flop is KJT all /images/graemlins/spade.gif's

Check, bet, call.

Turn is 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

check, I check

River is 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Bet, call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Barry I haven't read any responses...but I think I bet this turn, call a raise and raise the spade river but call otherwise.

You have a LAG who could is playing a wide range of hands here, and will call a turn bet (at least) with any spade. When he bets the river, and the spade gets there...why in the world would you not raise? Fine, he *could* have the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif but he could also have any other spade that he will certainly call with and he isn't re-raising without the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif unless he is smart enough to bluff re-raise to get a weaker spade to fold (in which case I'm not folding, and probably still not folding to his re-raise anyway being that he is LAG).

As it played out, I think the river is an easy raise as you'll get called by any spade.

But again, I'd bet my royal straight/flush draw on the turn and call a raise, then pop a spade river. I just feel like this hand was played weakly.

Now I'll read some other responses, and wait on your follow-up reasoning! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MaxPower]

Given his style of play there is no reason to think that you are behind on the turn and if you are you have a ton of outs. I would bet. You might even get check-raise by a worse hand.

On the other hand, the pot is small so checking is not so bad.

[Boris]

[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, the pot is small so checking is not so bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't the fact that the pot is small make you more inclined to bet? I mean it's a bigger mistake for a weaker hand to call when the pot is small; so why not bet?

[MaxPower]

Barry,

I have noticed that many of the LAGs on Party NEVER just call the flop with flush draw. So when you make your hand on the river, you can be almost certain your hand is good.

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, the pot is small so checking is not so bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't the fact that the pot is small make you more inclined to bet? I mean it's a bigger mistake for a weaker hand to call when the pot is small; so why not bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the pot is small it is not as bad to give a free card. Its worth taking the small risk of being outdrawn to win one more bet. That is the exactly the time when you should induce a bluff. That is if he thinks his opponent will fold to a turn bet, which I don't think is true here.

[sfer]

I don't mind the turn check much but that looks like the second easiest river raise ever.

[piocet]

I don't get it. Everyone's saying that this QQ hand is ahead more often than not on turn. But is it true? Let's have a list.

QQ ahead of: AJ, AT, 99~77 and who knows whatever junk
QQ behind of: AK, AQ, AA-TT, KQ, KJ

I know you have to consider the flop play, but the villian's check-call on flop doesn't mean much to me unless I know him very well.

Another of my concern is that you may get check-raised by a lot of the hands that are ahead but the villian may fold a lot of the hands that are behind. I know 1.5 aggression factor is bad, but not that bad.

I check the turn.

[Barry]

On the turn, I checked as a combination of checking with outs and inducing a bluff.

On the river, in the heat of the moment, I figured that there was no value in raising as he would fold without a /images/graemlins/spade.gif and would 3 bet the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif, which I would have to payoff. As I think about it more, if this was live, my play would have been correct, but online I might get called by a few worse hands. As such, I think that a raise was correct, but only by a little bit.

In any event he had AJ /images/graemlins/club.gif and MHIG.