3 bet the turn here, or to fancy

[crackthis09]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Crackthis is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Crackthis raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Crackthis calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Crackthis checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Crackthis calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Crackthis checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Crackthis raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Crackthis caps</font>, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

[Kuanti]

Bet the flop. I can't believe he folded the turn cap. And what do you mean 3-bet the turn? He's the one who did that.

[jaxUp]

cap that turn. looks like a big PP, and u have the nut trips.

[KaiShin]

Raise the flop.

I don't understand what you're asking about on the turn.

[crackthis09]

i mean should i've capped it or no?

[KaiShin]

Of course you should have capped it.

[crackthis09]

asking if i should of capped it here. May be get him to bluff on the river.

[Marquis]

The turn is easy, but I'm wondering how y'all approach this flop with a plan for the rest of the hand. Check-call, check-call, bet?

[crackthis09]

call the flop, raise turn, raise river

[UncleSalty]

I don't understand why you smooth called the flop. Are you afraid of AA/KK here? There are other PP that he might 3-bet with, as well as AK, so you're only beat about 30% of the time. Since you own at least 65% of this pot heads-up, I would have gone for the flop check/raise, and definitely lead the turn.

[crackthis09]

I knew i was a head, i was just making a fancy play...:(

[UncleSalty]

Ah, FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome). It afflicts us all from time to time. I recommend 5 minutes of 8-tabling to get your mind back on straight-ahead poker. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Edit: By the way, if you're thinking at that level you're probably ready to move up if your bankroll allows.

[davelin]

Huh? Why are we betting or check/raising this flop?

[UncleSalty]

Am I wrong to assume we're ahead 65%-70% of the time?

[davelin]

Kuanti says "Bet the flop"
Kaishin says "Raise the flop"
UncleSalty says "I would have gone for the flop check/raise"

I disagree with you all.

[UncleSalty]

[ QUOTE ]
Kuanti says "Bet the flop"
Kaishin says "Raise the flop"
UncleSalty says "I would have gone for the flop check/raise"

I disagree with you all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Davelin open folds?? Please explain! /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I wrong to assume we're ahead 65%-70% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm playing a modified version of the WA/WB line here.

[crackthis09]

started with 50 bucks alomst up to 600 in 3 weeks. About to start 1/2 /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[UncleSalty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I wrong to assume we're ahead 65%-70% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm playing a modified version of the WA/WB line here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just found out what that stands for this morning. (Way Ahead or Way Behind for the rest of my n00b brethren) Can you point me to a good thread discussing how best to play it?

Thanks!

[UncleSalty]

Be careful - 3 weeks is too short to know if you're ready. I'd take a stab and be ready to step down if you get smacked around too much. I assume a good piece of your roll came from Bonus Whoring, so tread carefully!

[cmwck]

Err.. if you checked, why didnt you check-raise? You're only behind to AA's and KK's (and the really unlikely pocket QQ's).

Turn is good. Looks like this guy is off his rocker.

[davelin]

I don't have link ready but I'll provide an example. The tough thing about this hand is extracting maximum value out of AK while minimizing our losses. If I find an example, I'll forwarded it on.

[cmwck]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have link ready but I'll provide an example. The tough thing about this hand is extracting maximum value out of AK while minimizing our losses. If I find an example, I'll forwarded it on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that AK is the only had he holds that we beat?

[crackthis09]

I'm gonna have to say your wrong there, 100 from rake back, 350 from winnings. Gonna start bonus whore'ing though /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[crackthis09]

See i felt like he was bluffing hardcore, i should of seen if he would of bluffed the river..

[MrWookie47]

I'm interested in what you have to say about this hand. I recognize the flop as a perfect place for WA/WB, but once I know I'm WA, and not WB, you think it's better to keep up the same line rather than seeing if your opponent wants to go to war?

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't have link ready but I'll provide an example. The tough thing about this hand is extracting maximum value out of AK while minimizing our losses. If I find an example, I'll forwarded it on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that AK is the only had he holds that we beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not, but going to war on the flop if he has JJ or TT is wrong here.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm interested in what you have to say about this hand. I recognize the flop as a perfect place for WA/WB, but once I know I'm WA, and not WB, you think it's better to keep up the same line rather than seeing if your opponent wants to go to war?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's tough, I think c/r'ing the turn is fine here.

[ArturiusX]

For some reason, I like waiting for the turn to do a check-raise here.

He has a huge possibility of hands, if we're in front we can trap him for more bets this way, if we're behind we minimise what we lose (obviously a 3-bet to our check-raise on the turn is a sure sign that we're behind, so its a calldown).

Because you improved on the turn, easy cap.

It'd be an interesting hand to post in small stakes (changing the limit to 2/4 of course so they dont get angry /images/graemlins/smirk.gif). I'm not sure if you played it this way on purpose though.

[waynethetrain]

Check raise the flop. You are ahead of more hands than you are behind even considering the 3-bet pre-flop.

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]
Check raise the flop. You are ahead of more hands than you are behind even considering the 3-bet pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats exactly the point. We're ahead, why is check-raising going to get us the most money?

[cmwck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Check raise the flop. You are ahead of more hands than you are behind even considering the 3-bet pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats exactly the point. We're ahead, why is check-raising going to get us the most money?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm so confused people. OK, I can see that you either have him crushed, or he has you crushed.

If you c/r the flop, and you're ahead, he'll probably call down and you'll win 3 BB. If you're behind, he'll probably 3-bet, and you'll call down for a loss of 3.5

If you c/r the turn, and you're ahead, he'll probably call down and you'll win 3.5 BB. If you're behind, he'll probably 3-bet, and you'll call down for a loss of 4.5

By c/r the turn, you risk an extra 1BB to win only 0.5BB
For this to work, he would have to not 3-bet you on the turn, AND have the best hand a certain percentage of the time ; (4.5-3.5)/4.5 x 100 = 22% to be exact. Either that or we would have to fold to a turn 3 bet most of the time. Are we really doing this?

By the way, I'm pretending I don't know what is coming on the turn and river.

-C.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
If you c/r the flop, and you're ahead, he'll probably call down and you'll win 3 BB. If you're behind, he'll probably 3-bet, and you'll call down for a loss of 3.5

[/ QUOTE ]

You think JJ-TT or AK UI is calling down here?

[@bsolute_luck]

wow, that's too much to think about after a long day of work. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

let's try this line on for size: bet the flop because MP3 raised PRF, he's either gonna call or raise. right now we're only behind AA-KK and the unlikely set. i doubt he's gonna fold a hand worth 3-betting prf flop.

a Queen on the turn is difficult because if you bet, he may fold. you c/r, he's probably gonna fold. so i'm check/calling. yes, it is dangerous not to nail him as he might have AA-KK and river a set, but that's poker.

seeing as he's bet out at this point, c/r the river. very dependent on his style of play probably, but i'd give it a shot.

winnings: 4BB /images/graemlins/grin.gif