Help me off the ledge.

[PktAcesSoWht]

10sng--Villain has shown that he will play any two cards in any position, played 25o in CO, Q4s MP and an assortment of other cards. Will call min raises with any two cards, and will raise with any two suited, pair, and possibly any two.

I bet out hoping to take it down right there and also figuring odds are that he did not have a J in his hand, hopefully a 4. When he put me all-in I figured that he had nothing so I thought about it and figured I was in front.

This type of hand has happened to me several times today, and it is very frustrating getting your chips in, being ahead and then getting beat. I know this is poker, but wth.

What more can you do? Let me guess, my flop bet should have been more? It seems that is always the case, you bet too much/you didn't bet enough. I really tried to make sure that I had decent hands when I entered the pot so that I could get this guy to pay me off with his crap, but this was only the second hand he chose to play with me. I took down that with a modest turn bet with flush flop(I had nuts) and turn Pairing a Q, he folded to my turn bet.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB (t1390)
UTG (t1185)
MP (t2815)
<font color="#C00000">CO (t4815)</font>
Button (t1100)
<font color="#C00000">Hero (t2195)</font>

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t400</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls t200.

Flop: (t900) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t400</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t2100</font>, Hero calls t1395 (All-In).

Turn: (t4795) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t4795) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t4795

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
CO has 9c Kc (two pair, kings and jacks).
Hero has Td Ts (two pair, jacks and tens).
Outcome: CO wins t4795. </font>

[Rolen]

Only advice I can give is to switch from being results oriented (person X sucked out on me so I must've played it bad) to performance oriented (person X sucked out on me so I must've played it well)

You want this situation to happen. If it never did, you'd be a losing poker player.

[PktAcesSoWht]

oh, I completely agree with you. I am not frustrated with how I played it per se. I know this happens to everyone. It just really really suck to have it happen three times in one day to have the best of things and lose every time.

I suppose it is human nature to be upset at the result of something that is planned to perfection but for whatever reason goes wrong.

I am sure that every person that gets close to the real money only to lose when they have a good hand has a similar story to tell. I was just sharing my pain. People that don't play poker would never understand how it feels to make a good read on someone only to have the cards fall their way. Believe it or not, it happened to me four times in a row today. I guess I should be happy, because the odds are in my favor that it is going to swing my way sooner or later.

[shejk]

Not to be an ass, but I'd rather comfort or feel sympathy with you if you didn't lead me to believe you actually wanted advice... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Of course it sucks to be drawn out on, but on the other hand, good allin calls postflop are probably my favorite feeling all categories right now. I like it a LOT.

[pooh74]

ill beat the bad "bad beat police" to this thread...if they even show up.

HOW CAN U FEEL BAD ABOUT THIS?!?!? you applied everything correctly...u had a read, u had a hand...u got you chips in a HUGE favorite (he had 3 clean outs) and u lost...

I'm not going to berate you for posting this, I empathize...but really...what are you going to hear that you dont know already? And if you dont know it already, that bodes poorly.

[skipperbob]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I should be happy, because the odds are in my favor that it is going to swing my way sooner or later.

[/ QUOTE ]
You might want to re-read "That of Which we do not speak" /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[skipperbob]

[ QUOTE ]
that bodes poorly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh Please! To reach that far and come up empty? How sad! Try this: "that poorly bodes" /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that bodes poorly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh Please! To reach that far and come up empty? How sad! Try this: "that poorly bodes" /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhoh...it appears we were instead visited by the grammar police...hide! They're even more boring than the bad beat police, just w/o the nightsticks...

lemme rephrase..."if you dont know that already, then, uh, that's....that's not good"

touche'...or as the French say, "Touche' moi"

[lastchance]

I don't like your minraise preflop. I'd rather push preflop, IMHO, depending on the conditions. Playing TT with high blinds can be hard, so I think pushing is correct.

Once that board comes down, you're broke.

[skipperbob]

Only did it because you have previously demonstrated that you have a good sense of humor /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Only did it because you have previously demonstrated that you have a good sense of humor /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Never...give me proof!

[skipperbob]

Sorry; you're right....I just read all 237 of your posts /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[jcm4ccc]

I think the small raise preflop is where you lost this hand. You accomplished very little with the raise (the CO is not going to fold for an extra 200 chips -- but perhaps you kept the BB out of the hand), and you made the flop more difficult to play by making the pot so big.

Let's assume you just limped in with your tens and the BB folds. The pot is 500. The flop comes up with 2 Jacks. Great flop. Unlikely that the CO has a jack. You can now make a pot-sized bet (maybe a little less) and still get away from the hand if you like (you're not pot-committed). Or you could represent the jack by check/raising the flop (the CO is the chip leader and is likely to try to bully you on the flop, especially since he was the preflop raiser).

Let's assume you limped in and the BB called the bet. Now there is 600 in the pot. On the flop, you have a decision--are you going to play this hand aggressively, or let it go. I think either play is fine.

Or let's say that you wanted to be more aggressive, and your tournament is going to live or die on this hand. Raise it preflop to 600 (or perhaps all-in). The CO calls (perhaps--he should fold). The flop comes. Go all-in. The CO will almost certainly fold if he doesn't have a jack.

You played this hand as if you didn't know what to do with your tens. You didn't have a plan. I think the CO played this hand better than you did. He correctly read that you didn't have a Jack on the flop. He put you to a hard decision (you never put the CO to a hard decision). However, his mistake was in not realizing that you were pot committed.

[swarm]

See I felt it was the other way, I thought you lost this hand on the flop. You only bet 400 into what a 800 or so pot. I probably just push here and take it down. You know he at the worst has over cards or a smaller pocket pair. It's a nice size pot to take down already, TAKE IT DOWN!

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry; you're right....I just read all 237 of your posts /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

oh, well, you didnt like post #138 about the priest, the rabbi and the duck?

No but seriously, when you're brought up on Three's Company, Benny Hill, and Small Wonder like I was, its just natural that the laughs and good times just "flow".

[rickr]

Skipper,
Hate to disagree with you, but for some reason this statement seems like it should read " bodes poorly, this one does" (in your best Yoda voice) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later,
Rick

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Skipper,
Hate to disagree with you, but for some reason this statement seems like it should read " bodes poorly, this one does" (in your best Yoda voice) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later,
Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

"bodes poorly does this" if you're gonna get Yoda, do it right..;)

[rickr]

Now your just getting PICKY!!! /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rick

[citanul]

wow, so you didn't even try to conceal the fact that this was a bad beat post?

impressive.

i'd have raised more preflop likely, then bet more on the flop, then gotten all in on the flop against the idiot, then lost to the idiot, then requested my hand history, then closed the table, then started a new game.

note: at no point in there, or following it, would i have made a bad beat post.

citanul

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
It just really really suck to have it happen three times in one day to have the best of things and lose every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm sorry bout my other post, i didn't realize you got drawn out on 3 times in one day! that'd push anyone's buttons.

citanul

[etgryphon]

http://www.cnn.com/EVENTS/1997/star.wars.anniversary/where.are.they/yoda.lg.jpg

"Grammer does not make one great!"

[Glintir]

The problem with all that is.. you're dealing with a demonstrated lunatic. He might have folded to a larger bet, but I doubt it, because he had a King... A KING! Nothing beats a KING! (except an ace, but you couldn't possibly have one of those betting out for 3 or 4 times the blind).

Nope, with K9, I bet this guy would come along on nearly any bet. If he had any chance to drive him off it would be the flop and even then probably not.

Any betting PF here is for the rest of the tables benefit, So if 2x will drive out the BB. Do it. If it takes 3, do that.

Personally, I like to get it heads up with the loon, and then unless I'm well ahead, I try to keep the remaining betting low. Way I see it, he'll be offering me his money again in a few hands, I don't need to take it all now.

[nokona13]

Let me just say that PktAces' posts today are making me REALLY glad there's a tacit agreement not to whine and not to post bad beats...

[PktAcesSoWht]

I do want advice, doh! that is why I posted this on here. Why does anyone post on here if not to gain knowledge or pass it on.

[PktAcesSoWht]

well, I guess, I did not read any unwritten rule about only asking about hands where you get beat when you have the worst of it. Bad beats give me a friggin break. TO me a bad beat is losing to 27 from the big blind or some other ilk.

I posted a hand because I was trying to find out what I should be doing differently that I am not doing now, or affirmation that no, I did play it right.

If you don't like a post that someone makes, here is an idea, DONT RESPOND TO IT AND MOVE ON.

I don't know what agreement there is on posting hands where you lose to an inferior hand or someone gets some kind of draw out on you, when they should have folded or any kind of hand. As stated before, I post to gain insight into how to play a hand differently. Thankfully there are a lot of good players out there that take the time to comment and offer insight, and then there are those of you that don't have any thoughts, so you bash the post. Save everybody the time in having to peruse your mindless comments about the post, till they get to the considerate people that are contributing to the forum.

[Slim Pickens]

I think you played it well, and in fact should not have played it any differently. Getting him to fold at any point in this hand is a very bad bad move IMO since you can absolutely trash this table if you double up. You accomplished your mission of isolating the weak player and then getting as many chips in the pot as possible when you stood to be way ahead. I like the weak flop bet just asking for a maniac to come over the top with as little as one overcard. If HE made that bet it would surely be because he called a preflop raise with some powerhouse hand like 64o and now has zero overcards and no draw, but might try to take it down anyway. He then played as though you were as stupid as he apparently is and you punished him for it.

Slim

[Punker]

The only advice you will get from this hand is "Don't get so unlucky". Glad I could help.

[shejk]

[ QUOTE ]
well, I guess, I did not read any unwritten rule about only asking about hands where you get beat when you have the worst of it. Bad beats give me a friggin break. TO me a bad beat is losing to 27 from the big blind or some other ilk.

I posted a hand because I was trying to find out what I should be doing differently that I am not doing now, or affirmation that no, I did play it right.

If you don't like a post that someone makes, here is an idea, DONT RESPOND TO IT AND MOVE ON.

I don't know what agreement there is on posting hands where you lose to an inferior hand or someone gets some kind of draw out on you, when they should have folded or any kind of hand. As stated before, I post to gain insight into how to play a hand differently. Thankfully there are a lot of good players out there that take the time to comment and offer insight, and then there are those of you that don't have any thoughts, so you bash the post. Save everybody the time in having to peruse your mindless comments about the post, till they get to the considerate people that are contributing to the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case, I think you should post without the results.

[Paul2432]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't like a post that someone makes, here is an idea, DONT RESPOND TO IT AND MOVE ON.

[/ QUOTE ]

Irony at its finest.

Paul

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you don't like a post that someone makes, here is an idea, DONT RESPOND TO IT AND MOVE ON.

[/ QUOTE ]

Irony at its finest.

Paul

[/ QUOTE ]

I liked this post...ironic indeed...(ok moving on now)