Another Terri Shivo post....help me figure this out

[STLantny]

I honestly dont know how I stand on this issue, Im more for state's rights than anything, but I also see it as a moral issue..but, one thing that no one has been able to answer me: if i were to travel to Terri's hospice the day it was announced that the feeding tube was going to be removed, ie, while it was still in, and scheduled for removal, and shot her with a gun...am I commiting murder? Cause if so, it would seem that she's "alive" enough to be kept on???

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly dont know how I stand on this issue, Im more for state's rights than anything, but I also see it as a moral issue..but, one thing that no one has been able to answer me: if i were to travel to Terri's hospice the day it was announced that the feeding tube was going to be removed, ie, while it was still in, and scheduled for removal, and shot her with a gun...am I commiting murder? Cause if so, it would seem that she's "alive" enough to be kept on???

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read any of the other threads, and I only opened this one because I was wondering WTF people could still be discussing.

Anyhow, shooting someone is murder, the active taking of life. Removing life support such as a breathing aparatus is allowing someone to die, passively. Removing a feeding tube, which is essentially starving a person, is a questionable grey area between the two. It is a topic complicated enought that it could not be done justice being discussed here. Read a few books on Medical Ethics.

[istewart]

I think the conclusion of this whole case is that it's really fun to make fun of it, since nobody cares anyway.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
if i were to travel to Terri's hospice the day it was announced that the feeding tube was going to be removed, ie, while it was still in, and scheduled for removal, and shot her with a gun...am I commiting murder? Cause if so, it would seem that she's "alive" enough to be kept on???

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you be against the death penalty for the same reason?

[STLantny]

Eh, I think its very sad that you believe no one cares.

[STLantny]

Im not saying Im for or against anything, pertaining to this case. Im for the death penalty though, but oddly enough, I disagree with abortion.

[El Barto]

[ QUOTE ]
Removing a feeding tube, which is essentially starving a person, is a questionable grey area between the two.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had an infant (incapable of feeding herself), do you think you would be charged with murder if you withheld food from her until she died? Or is that a grey area too?

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]
Eh, I think its very sad that you believe no one cares.

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of people care because it is on the news. Those people are sheep.

It's on the news because it gets ratings. Those journalists are whores.

Policitians are involved because it gets votes. Those policitians are also whores.

This is not a new topic. It comes up constantly in every hospital in the country. There is nothing that special about this case, except the absurdly disgusting sensationalization of it, and the ridiculousness of people all over the country claiming that they "care" because the media tells them to and it makes them feel better about themselves.

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Removing a feeding tube, which is essentially starving a person, is a questionable grey area between the two.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had an infant (incapable of feeding herself), do you think you would be charged with murder if you withheld food from her until she died? Or is that a grey area too?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a topic complicated enought that it could not be done justice being discussed here. Read a few books on Medical Ethics.

[/ QUOTE ]

[El Barto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Removing a feeding tube, which is essentially starving a person, is a questionable grey area between the two.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had an infant (incapable of feeding herself), do you think you would be charged with murder if you withheld food from her until she died? Or is that a grey area too?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a topic complicated enought that it could not be done justice being discussed here. Read a few books on Medical Ethics.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you are saying it is a grey area, if you think you need to read books on medical ethics to decide if starving a baby is murder.

[Voltron87]

She is technically alive, she has a heartbeat, she has no brain activity that registers with whatever machines they use. It would definitely be murder.

[elwoodblues]

Not feeding a baby where you have a duty to do so is very different.

This case is about a competent adult person saying "Don't Feed Me." The fact that this was done through a guardian should make no difference.

[El Barto]

[ QUOTE ]

This case is about a competent adult person saying "Don't Feed Me."

[/ QUOTE ]

We do not know that to be true at all. It is at most hearsay evidence.

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that this was done through a guardian should make no difference.

[/ QUOTE ]


There is a difference between what is decided/said by a person and by a person's guardian on their behalf. Anyone who is the guardian of teenage kids understands that.

[STLantny]

[ QUOTE ]
lot of people care because it is on the news. Those people are sheep.

It's on the news because it gets ratings. Those journalists are whores.

Policitians are involved because it gets votes. Those policitians are also whores.

This is not a new topic. It comes up constantly in every hospital in the country. There is nothing that special about this case, except the absurdly disgusting sensationalization of it, and the ridiculousness of people all over the country claiming that they "care" because the media tells them to and it makes them feel better about themselves.


[/ QUOTE ]


This kind of case obviously does not happen all that often, or else you would hear about it more often, because since as you say ppl are sheep, and they are being told to care because they cant think for themselves, it wouls be very easy for the major networks to just keep things like this in the public eye, and make money off it. Do I care about her? No, not really, but I care about how this case will effect future issues such as state's rights, and congress stepping in where they have no business to.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
She is technically alive, she has a heartbeat, she has no brain activity that registers with whatever machines they use. It would definitely be murder.

[/ QUOTE ]

So life = heartbeat?

What about people with one of these:

http://www.texasheartinstitute.org/atahands.jpg

[STLantny]

BTW...as a side observation, most people who love to spout the term sheep, sheeple, most people are sheep, etc in my experience are very liberal or have liberal leaning views. The ironic thing is, the coining of the term sheeple, sheep etc, came from THE MOST conservative thinker of the last 10 years, Micheal Savage.

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lot of people care because it is on the news. Those people are sheep.

It's on the news because it gets ratings. Those journalists are whores.

Policitians are involved because it gets votes. Those policitians are also whores.

This is not a new topic. It comes up constantly in every hospital in the country. There is nothing that special about this case, except the absurdly disgusting sensationalization of it, and the ridiculousness of people all over the country claiming that they "care" because the media tells them to and it makes them feel better about themselves.


[/ QUOTE ]


This kind of case obviously does not happen all that often, or else you would hear about it more often, because since as you say ppl are sheep, and they are being told to care because they cant think for themselves, it wouls be very easy for the major networks to just keep things like this in the public eye, and make money off it. Do I care about her? No, not really, but I care about how this case will effect future issues such as state's rights, and congress stepping in where they have no business to.

[/ QUOTE ]

This does happen often, they fact that it does not get media attention does not mean that it is something new.

There was nothing special about the cases of the Petersons or the Ramseys either, except that the media decided for focus on it, and the publicly dutifully followed along.

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW...as a side observation, most people who love to spout the term sheep, sheeple, most people are sheep, etc in my experience are very liberal or have liberal leaning views. The ironic thing is, the coining of the term sheeple, sheep etc, came from THE MOST conservative thinker of the last 10 years, Micheal Savage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good for most people. I am one of the most severe right-wing conservatives that you will ever meet.

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Removing a feeding tube, which is essentially starving a person, is a questionable grey area between the two.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had an infant (incapable of feeding herself), do you think you would be charged with murder if you withheld food from her until she died? Or is that a grey area too?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a topic complicated enought that it could not be done justice being discussed here. Read a few books on Medical Ethics.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you are saying it is a grey area, if you think you need to read books on medical ethics to decide if starving a baby is murder.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I am saying is that they are not necessarily the same thing, and that the quick comparisions used here do not do the topic justice. I would debate the topic further, but I do not wish to spend the next 100 hours discussing the issues involved.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Good for most people. I am one of the most severe right-wing conservatives that you will ever meet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not talking about you, but this statement made me think about something. I find it very ironic that most of the people I meet that describe themselves as conservatives, I tend to think of as radical religious nutjobs. This is why I stopped describing myself that way.

[STLantny]

Im actually with you guys, Im very conservative my self, on most issues, not republican, but conservative, and Im not religious in the least, spiritual, somewhat, but not religious. Ironic, that I cant stand Hannity or fox news though........

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
We do not know that to be true at all. It is at most hearsay evidence.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we allow any evidence other than a living will to show the intent of someone in a similar situation, then it will be hearsay. If you think that we should ONLY allow living wills to speak your wishes, that's fine. Of course, that's not what the Florida legislature wanted.

Describe evidence (other than a living will) that would show Terri's intent without it being hearsay.

[astroglide]

politics forum

[pokerjo22]

[ QUOTE ]
Im for the death penalty though, but oddly enough, I disagree with abortion.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not that odd - most right-wing conservatives hold that view.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
politics forum

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes, please...

[elwoodblues]

Does:
Law = Politics?
Current Events = Politics?
Morals/Ethics = Politics?

Is the line where people might disagree along political lines?

The fact that everyone wants to turn ethical and legal questions into political ones is kind of sad.

[El Barto]

[ QUOTE ]
Does:
Law = Politics?
Current Events = Politics?
Morals/Ethics = Politics?


[/ QUOTE ]

Here's some more:

Steroids policy = Politics

Hot Babes = Politics (just ask any militant feminist)

[AngryCola]

Why take it that far?

The point is, there are plenty of people who want to talk about this type of stuff in the Politics forum.

And boy do they talk about it.
It's just easier if the mess stays in there.

[Beerfund]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Removing a feeding tube, which is essentially starving a person, is a questionable grey area between the two.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had an infant (incapable of feeding herself), do you think you would be charged with murder if you withheld food from her until she died? Or is that a grey area too?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think anyone that cant feed themselves should die......including babies. I'm also all for this End it all (http://www.vhemt.org/)

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
Hot Babes = Politics (just ask any militant feminist)

[/ QUOTE ]
Plus there is often a vote involved

[astroglide]

heavy = politics (e.g. euthanasia)
light = oot (e.g. hiring a personal assistant)

is this honestly that difficult for you?

[STLantny]

what about putting down your personal assistant?

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
is this honestly that difficult for you?


[/ QUOTE ]

Difficult, no. Arbitrary and stupid, yes.