call, call, bet line from fish

[QTip]

Why does the call,call,bet line, always freak me out?

MP3 is the main reason I'm sitting at this table. Total fish..to the tune of 45/4/.85 He does play pretty straight forward though.

Should I have popped this river?


Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. UTG posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds.

River: (11 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 13 BB

[DMBFan23]

it's very likely that he has 87 here and doesnt realize that an overpair counterfeits him, but I like calling to collect the overcall as you would really hate to get 3 bet and you probably wont get called for two cold by the other guy. a straight or a 5 is also possible but unlikely. I think you get checkraised on the turn with the trip 5s and if he had 46 for the double gutter on the flop then good for him.

[masonx]

toughy..
i think so. could have his two-pair counterfieted.. i have no clue.. maybe its safer to call.

Is he the kinda guy that would 3-bet a 5 and or a strait (some of those fishes would'nt raise with the nuts)


I have no idea. i think you should raise based on his range of hands and chances are he probably wont three-bet you..

EDIT - I like going for overcalls too.. i dont think calling or raising is really wrong in this spot.

[Chris Dow]

Well, the 5 pairing on the turn and you not getting raised is good for you. It protects your bullets from random two pair hands. So now you just have to make a value decision. Is going for the overcall better than going for 2 from MP3 with maybe 2 from the other player. I think that if MP3 truly is why you're at the table you should raise this one up. I mean you're obviously giving him credit for quick calling with far less than the rivered straight so I think your best value on the river comes from a raise.

[meep_42]

I like a raise on the river. I think you're ahead, and even when you're not, this isn't the type of player that will 3-bet you often.

-d

[rmarotti]

You think this is better than collecting the overcall?

[QTip]

That surprised me coming from meep as well...because I've noticed that he normally really likes to suggest going for overcalls. I used to think of a raise here to fold an Ace that would overcall...but BigEndian assured me that "he's not folding an Ace unless someone comes in and shoots him dead." /images/graemlins/smirk.gif Still one of my favorite responses.

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
That surprised me coming from meep as well...because I've noticed that he normally really likes to suggest going for overcalls. I used to think of a raise here to fold an Ace that would overcall...but BigEndian assured me that "he's not folding an Ace unless someone comes in and shoots him dead." /images/graemlins/smirk.gif Still one of my favorite responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm really just baffled on what he could have... 87/77/A7 are really the only things I can put him on -- just seems like this is a bluff from a fish more often than not.

(and, I probably call here, but I think the better play is the raise, given an unlikely 3-bet)

-d

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
given an unlikely 3-bet

-d

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a good point, and would make me more inclined to raise than normal. for the record, I dont think either play is bad.

[QTip]

This weekend I was faced with this line a large # of times. I started thinking to myself "Did someone just publish a website with a guide to become an immediate pro by auto call/call/bet line or what?"...I kept having to decide if this was a bluff, legite, whether I wanted overcallers and so forth...

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really just baffled on what he could have... 87/77/A7 are really the only things I can put him on -- just seems like this is a bluff from a fish more often than not.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's a bluff then don't you think we should be calling to collect the overcall given the number of times that the fish will fold to our raise and we're out the overcall and the call of the raise?

[meep_42]

I didn't really mean bluff... I meant that he's betting a 2nd best hand that he thinks is best. My mistake. Most fishes at 2/4, in my experience, don't wake up on the river with nothing. I just don't think the texture of play and the river card lend themselves to him having a monster very often.

To sum - He thinks his hand is best, so he'll call the raise. He probably won't 3-bet the river with a better hand than you, and if he does, he likely has a monster (ie 77 or a slowplayed 5).

-d
-d

[Reprocess]

HU I raise almost every time, with the third guy in, i would go for the overcall.