2/4 Hand

[Chris Dow]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO folds.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Kd Qc (one pair, threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.75 BB. </font>

Comments on this sort of play in the long run?

[einbert]

I like the PF play, especially if CO is the type to steal-raise (of course some will and some won't at this level).

I would probably fold to the turn bet, but if you think he's the kind that will fold to this raise often it's okay. The pot is pretty tiny though.

Check behind on the river. I really doubt he folded a better hand than yours--a better hand isn't folding and a worse hand isn't calling. Hope he has spades or something else you can beat.

[Chris Dow]

I don't think I can check behind, I'm setting up a bluff on the turn that will (hopefully) represent a big pair and prevent ace high spade draw from seeing showdown and (possibly) fold out a 9. If he has another spade draw I am beating than I don't see the problem with betting the nuts on the river. Here is another hand where I put the same play in motion except here I would check the river behind on a non club river. Does anyone else adopt lines like these? I have a problem believing they have any real strength when they just lead into me. I find they try to get really tricky/trap happy. Comments?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

[einbert]

I really don't see why he would fold a 9 on the river if he called your turn raise.

I do see some value to the nut flush draw part of your thinking, though, that is a valid point. Mathematically I'm not sure if it works out but it is something to consider.

My thinking for the hand was that you probably don't have the best hand with a K high and against average party players you can't count on them to fold ace high at any point there. Against a random player with no specific reads I pretty much assume they are incapable of folding a hand with any decent showdown value and go from there. Maybe faulty logic on my part but it seems to be working fairly well. You do realize that this whole maneuver cost you 3 big bets to win a pot that was only about 6 big bets, so it has to work VERY often to be profitable. Pot size is a huge factor in my lean towards a turn fold there.

Yeah we do the free showdown turn raise here a good bit, I don't mind it at all in that hand with the clubs on the board. Alternatively I might raise the flop, bet the turn and check behind on the river but this line charges a flush draw more and has more fold equity against hands that are beating you like 55, etc.

It's a good line.

[unimproved]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone else adopt lines like these?

[/ QUOTE ]

I adopt them frequently, they succeed infrequently. I'm trying to phase them out - there tends to be more value in just playing ABC poker at these limits. They tend to work only rarely at small stakes unless Villain is weak-tight or a decent player who will give you credit you for an overpair.

[Chris Dow]

Thanks, in the KQ hand the guy is an aggro multitabler so I was giving him credit for being able to think beyond the average party fish (I agree that the first sort of play the guy absolutely HAS to be able to think and fold). In the AK hand I'm up against a random party fish but I have nut-no-pair so I still make the play.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Check behind on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think hero is both a) up against and b)folds an ace high type hand a lot here.

I've seen people at 2/4 play AK/AQ/AJ (without the flush draw) more often like this than you would expect.

[young nut]

This hand is too dependant on the read that you had on CO. I think we need more information on reads to judge whether you played this correctly.