Commerce 9/18 hand

[onegymrat]

Game is full and loose, on the aggressive side. 3 limpers to a loose preflop raiser who does what he does best, raise. Two cold-callers to me in BB with 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I call as do other limpers. Seven to the flop for two bets each.

FLOP: 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB checks. I check with the intention of check-raising if pf raiser is first to bet. Checked around. Still seven to the turn.

TURN: 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Oh well, SB checks, I bet. Only one MP caller. Headsup to the river.

RIVER: 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I bet...

[mtdoak]

Thats fine, just muck to a raise.

[sinfulslick18]

yeah fold to a raise.

-sinful

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats fine, just muck to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny. I agree with this, but in the JJ thread a bit down this page, you recommended that Hero raise the river when 4 hearts and 4 to a straight hit, just in case he could get the original bettor who "only had a straight" to fold. It seems your advice contradicts itself.

[Luv2DriveTT]

A value bet here is wasted because the villain will probably call only if he holds a diamond at this point.

Check to induce a bet, since this player is obviously agressive. There is little chance a player will fold if he holds any diamond at all on this river, so you might as well check-call. to gain that extra last bet.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[onegymrat]

Just wanted to add, if I gave the wrong impression, the only turn caller was NOT the pf raiser, although he is a VERY loose player. Then again, which one isn't?!

It was close, but I bet for two reasons. My straight can beat anything but a diamond, and second, I could fold a small diamond. As you can see, this decision bugged me.

[mtdoak]

The biggest difference of all: position. He is out of position here. Checking would almost always induce a bet in this situation whether he has a hand or not. If you read my other hand, my advice was to call to get information (i.e. does this guy bet scare cards), and raising was an option if you felt you could move him off a better hand (i.e. a straight)

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Just wanted to add, if I gave the wrong impression, the only turn caller was NOT the pf raiser, although he is a VERY loose player. Then again, which one isn't?!

It was close, but I bet for two reasons. My straight can beat anything but a diamond, and second, I could fold a small diamond. As you can see, this decision bugged me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally I'm a big fan of Clark's therum, but in this situation you must ask yourself the following:

1) does he have a diamond? If so, will he fold to a river bet?

2) If I bet will he fold hands such as top pair, buttom straight, a set, or 2 pair?

3) If I check, will he bet the river without a diamond?

Sounds like you made the play with the least positive expectation to me mate....

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[onegymrat]

1) does he have a diamond? If so, will he fold to a river bet? <font color="blue">Not sure, needed to find out with a bet </font>
2) If I bet will he fold hands such as top pair, buttom straight, a set, or 2 pair? <font color="blue"> No, he would not fold anything bigger than one pair.
</font> 3) If I check, will he bet the river without a diamond? <font color="blue"> Not if his diamond was small. </font>

[Jeffage]

Check-call. He won't call without a diamond. But he may bet if you check, allowing you to snap off a bluff. Checking is the play imo since he only calls/raises with a hand that beats you generally on this scary board.

Jeff

[onegymrat]

I think I agree with TT and Jeffage after further review. The check/call is probably the best option.

I bet and villain called time to think about it for 15 seconds or so. During the lull, I picked up my cards to show my neighbor, mainly for villain's benefit. Not sure if this was good countertell at all. Villain finally mucked. Thanks for the responses.