I hate these, fold a not so obvious loser? [Archive]

View Full Version : I hate these, fold a not so obvious loser?

B00T

03-27-2005, 11:28 PM

I hate this. I feel I could save a ton of bets with some discipline here. Villan is lousy, 53/16 with avg aggression. He plays dumb more often than not. Now if he leads the river, I can call down very often, or raise and fold to a 3 bet. When I get check raised here it just screams I can beat your lousy pair. Do people fold the river here? I dont know if this is an expert fold that only elite players make, or if this should be routine, or at least a factor before I automatically just hit call and grit my teeth.

Being in the bb, and knowing I am betting strong, (he is not smart enough to realize I potentially missed with AK, AQ etc.) He isnt going to check raise I dont think if he cant beat Aces.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Danenania

03-27-2005, 11:32 PM

Not against the player you describe. You will see stuff like QQ, JJ, 99 or just pairs often enough to call. Against a reliably passive player then sure, lay it down.

wadea

03-28-2005, 02:55 AM

Easy call. It costs 1BB to call a pot that has reached 9.5BB. Thus, you must win about once in ten times this happens to be +EV. You might be getting duped in this instance, but in the long-term, this is a huge +EV call - especially against the player you're describing.

-w.a.

mperich

03-28-2005, 06:12 AM

Please dont ever fold an overpair in a pot this size headsup on the river =P (ok maybe SOMETIMES but VERY rarely)

-Mike

Trix

03-28-2005, 09:09 AM

You will get abused if you routinely fold here.

rmarotti

03-28-2005, 10:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You will get abused if you routinely fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Grisgra

03-28-2005, 11:09 AM

Frankly, at 5/10 river checkraises mean exactly what you think, and the people claiming that you're ahead more than 1 in 10 times here must have been playing in very very different 5/10 games that me. (Or the game has radically changed in the last two months.)

This is not a laydown that you should make more than one time at any given table, or after you've folded to river aggression very recently. But I absolutely don't think a fold here would be a mistake, not at the 5/10 tables. (If it is one, it's a very tiny one, as you WILL be shown a rivered straight or a crap two-pair here very close to 90%+ of the time. Probably more often than that.)

ISF

03-28-2005, 11:21 AM

I used to think this was the case, and would usually fold one pair on the river in <12bb pots to river check raises, but have recently cought so many bluffs, I have started to call these down with out a strong passive or abc read.

Grisgra

03-28-2005, 11:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I used to think this was the case, and would usually fold one pair on the river in <12bb pots to river check raises, but have recently cought so many bluffs, I have started to call these down with out a strong passive or abc read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, I guess -- maybe the 5/10 games are getting trickier.

B00T

03-28-2005, 02:16 PM

I agree Grisgra. If I am not beat over than 90% of the time, its at least 75% of the time. I agree with the poster saying this is a recipe for disaster if done repeatedly at a certain table.

In regards to what Danenania said, I really don't agree there. I really cant expect to see 99-QQ here ever. Those hands are getting 3-bet preflop and makes a call of the river C/R a LOT easier. If I was 3-bet PF I wouldnt of thought twice about calling a river raise.

Donks at 5/10 have no problem calling down with 44 or TPNK despite my ruthless aggression, but to see them pop in a raise after all of that means they have anything I could possibly hold beat.

Him being in the BB also set off red flags that a player with "any 2" could of hit something decent here. If MP cold called my 2 bets I'd be more likely to call a river raise as well as he could represent AT slamming my AK KQ AQ or the like.

Obviously folding here routinely is a disaster but I just wanted to know if anyone folds here, ever.