Coming out of the Closet on Easter!(long)

[Reprocess]

It’s story time on 2 plus 2!!!! It’s going to be a fun, read, trust me.

Quick background. I graduated with a Bachelors in Math and Physics in 2001, spent a year job hunting and finding part time work, realized there was nothing fulfilling to acquire in the professional field with only a B.A. and went to grad school to study actuarial science. After 2 and a half years (a semester longer than I needed to acquire a degree) I realized I wasn’t going to be an actuary, withdrew from the university sans-degree and pursued the ultimate lifestyle of a professional poker player. (by the way, I’ve been doing this for almost a year, grinding my way along, happy with my 2bb/100 and growing, successful and self supporting, I’m 25.

This is not a story about the struggles and misconceptions, about the eventual downfall or virtuosic achievements of a gaming master. Instead this is a story about coming out of the closet, about telling the family.

This December I told my immediate family. Reactions were mixed. I basically told them, hurrah! Here I am, not getting a masters and I’m gambling for a living, at least I’m sure that’s how some of them took it. I smoothed out the details for the more skeptical and in all honesty I can say just about every one was supportive. (but still worried understandably, it’s hard not to worry when you don’t completely understand such a risky endeavor) They believed in me, if I believed in myself. My dad was awesome! Basically he said, “you think you can do it?” I said “ya”. He said, “Cool! Go do it.” And I am.

Fast forward 3 months to today.

I’m in a long term relationship with my lovely girlfriend for 5 years now. Her family doesn’t know about my pokering, and doesn’t really like me (don’t really know why). I think it has to do with the carefree attitude I take about most everything which they probably associate (incorrectly) with irresponsibility. I also haven’t really done ANYTHING since I’ve graduated college, which most likely they associated with “bumhood, laziness, sloth, loserness, etc etc”. I’m not so stupid however to settle down doing something that’s not going to make me happy in the long run. If I can’t make myself happy there is no way I’m going to make anyone else happy, most of all their daughter. (A quick aside on responsibility and self support: Since high school I’ve basically lived away from home, on my own, not taking a dime from anyone, not even my parents. I’ve had to sling part time jobs here and there. I’m a master at playing this game that is life and staying afloat. Above all this makes me happy and I take pride)

My girlfriend is getting stressed and doesn’t want to tell them, so when we visited for Easter today it was time for me to do it. I’ve gotten a lot better at telling people about this and explaining the many aspects of a playing poker professionally: the discipline it takes if you are really serious, the hours of study you have to do, the drive, to grind and meticulously scrutinize your every play. So I thought this wasn’t going to be so bad, it was going to be easy.

I sit down at the kitchen table and basically layout what has happened in my life in the last semester and a half. Her mom starts crying. I can see the anger and concern building up in her dad. I don’t know what’s happening, but I really don’t care either. I find life interesting and basically was thinking, “HooHa! Lets see what’s going to happen, im going to try and have fun with this and not let it get out of control”. I say “I can understand your concern with such and unorthodox decision, especially one that is most difficult to understand if you aren’t a part of the professional community, let me explain why I chose this, why I am successful and am going to continue to be in the future and I can also answer any questions and concerns you have”. Nice game plan eh? Then it basically turned into them yelling at me (in not such a yelling voice but a very condescending, disappointed and especially desperate tone) about how I never carry through with my plans, how I’m not committed to anything, and the dangers of the (this is the best part) “Get rich quick schemes”.
GG NooB

Basically everything breaks down. They don’t want to hear any explanations or learn about this choice. I realize this very quickly and see that this is just turning into another huge reason they can use to rationalize their misconception and dislike of me. I remain calm but come very close to getting angry when her dad insinuates that what I do (poker) is not hard and I don’t possess the discipline to succeed, while at the same time not fully understanding the risks involved. I also get to hear a story about “a friend” of theirs that just “lost everything”, his marriage fell apart his life is in ruins etc etc. He apparently was a “professional poker player”. Now I don’t know if this is true or not, but I can hardly see how some mans poor decisions and inability to prioritize his family over work are any of my concerns or indicative of my skill. But then again, sixs are running on party poker, I’ve seen them flop 3 times in the last 5 hands, for the love of god if you get six play it!!! We are saved by company coming over for Easter lunch.

The parents go outside to talk and calm down. It’s during this time that I learn that they have been telling other family members that they think I loaf around the house and do nothing and live off their hard working daughter’s income that is desperately struggling to hold down two jobs to support me. Needless to say I’m dumbfounded. They believe that she is paying ALL the house expenses including MY RENT! Nothing can be further from the truth, and it’s not even close. Anyway, she learns of this, I ask if she would please go outside and at least correct this one slight of my character. She attempts to talk to them and by her account her dad blows up at her. He starts screaming about how I’m no good, how she should leave me, again about how I can’t commit to anything, its going to be poker this year, what is it going to be next year, and then …. He calls me a loser. Indeed. A Loser. Ok, I get it. He is mad, confused, a lot of new information is coming and his wife is having a melt down. I realize that some things can be said in anger when one losses his temper. I can handle a lot but needless to say this is a whole new level of Hate I haven’t experienced in a while and defiantly was not expecting from these people.

I thought this wasn’t going to be all that significant. I mean from my point of view I’m 25 and basically announcing landing a new job or at worst a new career choice in which I’ve already landed a great paying job to people that have zero control over my actions. And they freak. In closing, mom never comes down from the bedroom, and we leave after a very short dinner.

Morals of the story:

Every thing is ok in the long run. Some people handle short term variance better than others.

So from me to you, Happy Easter, and I hope you enjoyed story time.

[Cubswin]

A post with more then 3 paragraphs that i actually read. Well played. I think a lot of people here are in quite similiar circumstances and can empathize with you.

[Lazymeatball]

I stopped reading, was the part where he said "Hurrah" admitting he was gay?

[IggyWH]

You effed up... you should have told them you sold crack to school children.

Things like this is exactly why I hate holidays.

[NoTalent]

wtf are you thinking? you seemed to know what their reaction was before you told them. Why would you jeopardize the relationship with your gf if you really like/love her. If you two get married they will be part of your family like it or not.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

[ QUOTE ]
I stopped reading, was the part where he said "Hurrah" admitting he was gay?

[/ QUOTE ]

No this (https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/cmason/pokerphotos/Luke.jpg) is Reprocess admitting he's gay.

Anyway, well played all around on this one, Reprocess.

-Craig

[gila]

Very well expressed. Here's hope to understanding from all.

Good Luck!

[touchfaith]

Let me guess....

Red state? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Losing all]

Jesus doesn't like the gamble

Liberal in-laws doesn't like the gamble either

Who likes?

[Sponger15SB]

I told my boss over the summer what I had been doing to support myself, and that I almost didn't work for her because I was going to play poker instead.

She of course tried to explain how I cannot win and I've just gotten lucky thus far, and that her father and her family friend have lost everything because of gambling. She told me I should quit because I am young and smart and shouldn't throw my life away.

There is only one thing you can do about these people, just don't talk to them about it or tell them to [censored] off.

People are going to believe whatever they want to believe despite a through explanation of a bankroll, a players edge, etc.

My mom thinks I'm addicted to poker because I talk about it a lot (hello, its my job, derrrrr) and I tell her that I have to play poker instead of doing (insert lame activity).

[FlFishOn]

I turned pro in 1995. My Dad died in 2002. During that stretch he never mentioned my career to any of his many friends. It was like I sold crack to kids. This guy was bright and I couldn't find a line of logic that would convince him it was a legitimate career.

Perhaps it isn't.

[iluzion]

[ QUOTE ]
wtf are you thinking? you seemed to know what their reaction was before you told them. Why would you jeopardize the relationship with your gf if you really like/love her. If you two get married they will be part of your family like it or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold preflop...

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Better they find out now so you don't get the "HE'S A GAMBLER/YOU ARE TOO YOUNG TO GET MARRIED" speeches at the same time when they are sure to be doubly pissed.

Sorry to hear this little coming out went so roughly, but it seems your relationship is rather strong from her reactions to all this.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus doesn't like the gamble

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been going out with my girlfriend for 2 years, her dad is a pastor. We have met several times and he knows what I do to support myself, he has not mentioned anything bad about it, nor has she told me that he does not like it (although she has no problem telling me she doesn't like it).

Anyways, just in the defense of conservative people, not all of them hate poker. He has also been known to gamble on the golf course though, 50 cents a hole!

[toss]

Too many people see gambling as a problem. They have experienced or know of the dangers of gambling as they should. I don't blame them for initially believing that playing poker for money is a bad move, but I do blame them for sucking at math and statistics.

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Dude, he's going to hell.

[pyroponic]

Sad to hear things didn't turn out alright. I'm going into a similar field you were going to (triple major Economics/Math/Philosophy). I really think that you should go back to school and get a real job in addition to playing poker, I find that it gets dull and tiresome playing A LOT, but that's up to you ultimately. At first I thought this post was about you explaining to your family about your lesbian relatinship of the last five years...whoops! hehehe


John's whoring blog (http://www.livejournal.com/users/pyroponic)

[IggyWH]

Live Journal sux... go with Blogster.

[iluzion]

What I would do: call them and see if you can take them to dinner somewhere, mention nothing about the other night unless they bring it up, and then say you think they have some misconceptions about what you do and would like to talk to them about it, to assure them you would be able to take care of their daughter the way she deserves, or something like that.

[FlFishOn]

" I don't blame them for initially believing that playing poker for money is a bad move, but I do blame them for sucking at math and statistics. "

It's much more than that. There's the whole 'Your wasting your talent' thing and the 'No contribution to Society' thing.

You could say the same about any day trader. I know, I know, liquidity. Still they are leaches (or losers), as am I.

[sfwusc]

You are creating an enjoyable time for people playing against you.

Some people play for fun.

I guess movie stars are leeches too.

SFWUSC

[FlFishOn]

"...to assure them you would be able to take care of their daughter the way she deserves, or something like that. "

That is just so much bullsh+t. Pro poker is best pursued as a single person. It's a relationship killer for many.

What you gonna do in 3 years when this bubble bursts?

[toss]

When I hear people assume that Poker Players contribute nothing to society, it makes me want to... resort to some sort of physical violence. I've done lots of charity work and I've denoted to charity a lot too. If I were to just pay my taxes, that would be more than enough.

About that 'wasting talent' thing would you blame someone for being a Carpenter when they could be a great doctor?

[FlFishOn]

While your points will find traction among the poker community, they fall flat with the non-believers.

[FlFishOn]

So touchy!

I didn't say I believed these things. I'm just pointing out the normal str8 attitude to pro poker.

I'm a proud leach, ten years now. I don't contribute a f-ing thing to SOCIETY. SOCIETY can kiss my ass.

OK, I do pay taxes.

[sfwusc]

I dont care what they think.

I make enough to support myself and buy extras. I am by myself and still in school.

I plan on working a real job, but those that want to full time----to me it is a business.

There is profit and loss, but over time it is profitable.

2/4 with 1 bb an hour 6 tables (all i can handle)

that is $24 an hour. That isnt counting bonuses or casino whoring.

Say you work 40 hours a week and 50 weeks a year. That is a 48K job just off playing poker. Not bad.

SWUSC

[toss]

Sorry I came off as touchy. I get into a hissy fit when I hear these things.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]

2/4 with 1 bb an hour 6 tables (all i can handle)

that is $24 an hour. That isnt counting bonuses or casino whoring.

Say you work 40 hours a week and 50 weeks a year. That is a 48K job just off playing poker. Not bad.

SWUSC

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds terrible. Who would want to play poker for 40 hours a week and only make $48k before taxes and insurance and stuff? Sounds like hell to me.

[Exsubmariner]

"About that 'wasting talent' thing would you blame someone for being a Carpenter when they could be a great doctor?"

I'd just like to interject what a nice parable that is on Easter Sunday.

[sfwusc]

I am not saying you can move up to 3/6 and such, but right now I am at 2/4.

What job starts you out at $48k working only 2000 hours a year.

SWUSC

[sfwusc]

By the way I am in the South.

I could live by myself like a King for 20K a year.

SFWUSC

[Exsubmariner]

Depends on where you live..... I "started" a job in Sillycon Valley making 55K a year.

[sfwusc]

Yea, but I bet your cost of living is a little higher than mine.
/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SFWUSC

[Exsubmariner]

Why I no longer live/work there....
BTW my deepest sympathy for being in the South. I no longer live/work there either....

[sfwusc]

Ok I share a two bedroom with a roomate. The most I have paid counting all the bills(power, water, cable) is like $360 one month. It is usually like $340.

It is a nice place too. Not the riches, but a nice place.

SFWUSC

[Yobz]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok I share a two bedroom with a roomate. The most I have paid counting all the bills(power, water, cable) is like $360 one month. It is usually like $340.

It is a nice place too. Not the riches, but a nice place.

SFWUSC

[/ QUOTE ]

This is going really OT, but I'm in college and pay closer to 550 a month for rent/utility bills...and I'm out in the middle of nowhere (bumblef.ck, NY)

[sfwusc]

I am 1 mile from downtown columbia, SC

[Shoe]

[ QUOTE ]
What you gonna do in 3 years when this bubble bursts?

[/ QUOTE ]

If and when the bubble bursts, if I am no longer able to beat the games, I am going to go back to programming.

And for the "contributing to society" comments, I do not feel like in my past jobs like I was really contributing to society any more than I am now (although others may disagree with their views on life). The only way I think you can really contribute to society is through volunteer work. Most jobs you are just helping the rich get richer, without actually helping people.

IMO there aren't that many jobs that give a great benefit to society. Doctors/nurses, firefighters/police, a few others....

EDIT: By police i don't mean the ones who are hired for the sole purpose of generating revenue via speeding tickets.

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not saying you can move up to 3/6 and such, but right now I am at 2/4.

What job starts you out at $48k working only 2000 hours a year.

SWUSC

[/ QUOTE ]With no benefits/insurance/retirement plan? This is like a 20K/yr job after all of those things. Sorry to piss on your parade dude, but most people require more than just a paycheck. I know I do.

[Exsubmariner]

I'll tell you what I think for no charge.
I have my job and pay my taxes and my mortgage out of a sense of responsibility to my fellow man. Poker is for me. Non interest bearing accounts and the like. If it works out, all the better. If not, well, you takes your chances when you pays your money.
If I were you, not so old and no mortgage and living for free off of internet poker promotions, I would use my lucky spot in this world and try to parlay into something like law school or medical school. That way, I would insure I would never be in the very unlucky spot of being stuck in a small southern town with no future and no past anyone could verify. just my $.02.
Happy Easter.

[sfwusc]

How do my being a CPA sound.

I will have that in two years.

SFWUSC

[Reprocess]

I didnt know their reaction at all before I told them, it took me by surprise to say the least. I didnt expect it to be a bed of roses but this melodrama reminded me of my first highschool break up.

As far as jeopardizing my relationship with my girlfriend, thats just absurd. I talked to her about it before anyone and we worked out our issues together. (we have been together for 5 years or so, we have a pretty mature relationship) If it came down to her leaving me over this, I may reconsider, but it didnt nor shouldnt, she is awesome and we do love each other. As far as them "being part of the fammily" if we get married, I dont see that as an issue either. Im a grown man, what I do and my life choices are my own. I am solely responsible for them, I take the risk and I reap the rewards. They will come around or they won't and I'll adjust my life accordingly.

later

[Exsubmariner]

It's a good start. Don't give it up.
There are a lot of sharp minds running around this place. I do my small bit to keep them from going a rye (sp?). CPA sounds very encouraging. There's nothing there that is going to stop you from playing poker all day when it's not tax season.
Good Night. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Reprocess]

I agree, Pro poker is proabably best pursued as a single person as most things are. However, This is in no way a relationship killer for us, I have been and always will be a hard core gamer that gets obsessive at times about things I like. She knows the person I am and can handle it.

The demands of my job will never come before the demands of my family. If others coulnd't handle that, then thats too bad, but I dont see how past results are indicitve of future expectation, especially when you are talking about the infinite variables of human relationships.

[DrPublo]

Is your avatar the Gorton's fisherman? I think he woud tell you to get a job.

The Doc

[sfwusc]

Dude,

Life is short. Do what you want/love.

SFWUSC

[pyroponic]

Sounds like you're a college student swfusc (University of Southern California?) If so, ignore these people...you're making far more than most college students and if you work on your game a little there's no reason you couldn't be making $50-70 per year playing 7-8 tables of $3/6 with rakeback by the end of the year. So I suggest keeping your grades up, enjoy your time while you can, and keep working on your game!

ALso sounds like you got a reliable career planned, nice job, I know for sure I wouldn't want to be playing poker full time as my career.

[WLVRYN]

I just quit my job as a CPA to take up poker full time. Being a CPA sucks.

Play poker!

[pyroponic]

Well duh...that's why you go into economics/actuary science/finance =) Probably still sucks, but sure beats accounting!

[SCfuji]

at least you got it over with and that your lady friend's parents will be able to deal with the news in whatever manner they feel. i still havent gotten the stones to tell my father that i do this for a living right now. i figure that it will be easier when i show him that when i can do this successfully at a higher level then maybe he will accept it a little bit better.

the mom and dad duo seem to be quite ignorant and immature the way they immediately draw to conclusions. it is like a thought doesn't even pass through their narrow minds. you really ought to try to get closer to them one or two more times, since this girl seems really important to you.

[BradleyT]

I would print out some figures and graphs to show them and give them a STFU shout-out.

[splashpot]

This is exactly why I don't talk to anyone about poker except other poker players. Gambling addiction, in the view of some people, is as bad as a cocaine addiction. Even if you win. Some of my very intelligent friends, math and science majors, were very surprised to hear that poker is a profitable game for a skilled player. They believed me of course, after I explained, but most people won't be so understanding.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

[ QUOTE ]
I talked to her about it before anyone and we worked out our issues together.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lies! I seem to remember a conversation with Reprocess that went something like this:

Reprocess: I'm going to quit school and be a pro poker player and I'm breaking the news to [the gf] tonight.

Me: Oh, how will she take it?

Reprocess: Eh, I think she'll be ok, I'm going to clean the house and buy her a plant.

[Reprocess]

she liked the plant. I know how to work the ladies! /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

[ QUOTE ]
Being a CPA sucks.


[/ QUOTE ]

Good to know. I'm going to be one in a little over a year. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

What didn't you like about it?

[Lurker4]

Reprocess, just curious, what game/sites/stakes/# of tables do you usually play?

[Reprocess]

I'm very careful about moving up limits and very disciplined in creating a bank roll that can handle the variance associated with those limits. I never want to feel like the money im losing in a bad session is going to impact me in any way or effect my life. As is, I am currently playing 2/4 and 3/6 occasionaly playing one table of 5/10 if it is really really fishy (havent done that in a while). I 8 table, (just got my dell 2001fp a month or so ago!) I generally play at party and empire but whore a bunch of other sites. Im proably going to be moving up to 3/6 and 5/10 at the end of april, beginning of may.

I also really don't consider myself as being able to provide for a family or others until I can hold my own at 15/30. I'm comfortable making my 48-52k a year right now, but don't really see that as a good career choice seeing what I could have gotten. Once I move up in limits (15/30 and above) I will truly consider myself a poker "pro". (making more than most would think possible playing a game I love)

why do you ask?

[Lurker4]

[ QUOTE ]
why do you ask?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, was just wondering, I'm usually interested in what games people play. I'm a bit below where you're at (2/4 full, 1/2 6m, 2/4 6m + bonuswhoring, have tried 3/6 a few times and plan on trying it out some more but my regular game will stay at 2/4 for now, 5-7 tables depending on whether 6m/full). I'm nowhere close to pro though, and really don't aspire to play full time (w/school I currently get in around 8-12 hrs/weeks, and sometimes 0 during the tougher weeks). I respect your decision to do so though and wish you the best. Although every once in awhile I do wish that I could just play a lot of hours instead of doing school.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm very careful about moving up limits and very disciplined in creating a bank roll that can handle the variance associated with those limits. I never want to feel like the money im losing in a bad session is going to impact me in any way or effect my life.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm the same; and I'm probably too overprotective of my bankroll as I don't really have many expenses that I need to take out.

[Shaun]

That sucks man, but you just have to lower your expectations of other people. Very few understand that your choice is probably a decent one. Everyone thinks they know what's best for everyone else. The hell with them.

Unfortunately it sounds to me like your girlfriend's parents are never going to get it. Tell her you are tired of being treated like a moron and don't want to be around her parents until they can learn to treat you like an adult who is capable of making his own decisions.

[Kenrick]

[ QUOTE ]
Depends on where you live..... I "started" a job in Sillycon Valley making 55K a year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wrote a few paragraphs and then my browser messed them up. Nice.

Here's the short version: Some people will not understand gambling. EVER. My brother got married last year, and, me, being honest, told some of my new relatives my main source of income when they asked. Some said, "Cool," others didn't understand, and the rest just looked at me funny. One guy told me how he's a computer guy and drives a BMW. "That's great! How many payments left on that?" Oh snap.

Do what you want, but be prepared to switch gears when you have to. I have a degree, so I have the paperwork. I don't particularly enjoy gambling, it's interesting, but not particularly fun. I see it as a stepping stone to do things I want to do, even if those things may not pay as well.

You will be lucky if you can get anyone to listen to your reasoning for it, much less give you credit for it. They do not understand and have no desire to. I have basically given up talking to anyone about gambling topics. They simply do not understand and don't care to try. That is reality. Good luck.

[sfwusc]

Tax or Audit?

Audit here. I start in Sept hopefully(maybe July). I then need two years experience and passing the exam to be a real CPA.

PS. Columbia SC, so the school is U. of South Carolina. The real USC since we are older than Southern Cal. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

SFWUSC

[WSOPWinner2005]

[ QUOTE ]
wtf are you thinking? you seemed to know what their reaction was before you told them. Why would you jeopardize the relationship with your gf if you really like/love her. If you two get married they will be part of your family like it or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this messes up his relationship with his girlfriend, his girlfriend isn't supportive of his decisions and things wouldn't work out in the long run anyways...

Another thing I find humourous. While yes, poker is essentially gambling. But do you think Casinos consider their end of any table games or slots a "Gamble" ???

Hell no... Why ? They have the house edge!

Is there a house edge in poker?

Yes, if you are a good player you have it ... Which in my eyes means a good player will not look at poker as gambling. A Mediocre player says it is kind of gambling, and a poor player says it is gambling but involves some skill.

I have learned as time goes on my attitude swaying as my game improves or I make stupid mistakes and lose a thousand dollars in a night... Sure I am not the only one.

I am smack dead in the middle myself - I do think it is kind of gambling ESECPIALY since I ahve been playing more and more PLO/PLO8 which is an entirely different game where it is realistically more of a gamble than NLHE regardles of your skill level...

Anyways, carry on... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Starzinger]

I havn't read the whole thread, but i've seen quite many of these posts. And i dont get it.

EVERYONE i've told, have been suprised, but has been very supportive and most people actually want to learn how to play. My family is happy with it, my girlfriends family thinks it really cool and have all been really interested.
All of my friends think its cool, and i've only heard a few voices of slight concern, but no yelling. Ever.

And about this "losing his family etc". People do this over other works aswell, isn't it stupid to lose your family over ANY kind of work, no matter what it is? (okey, maybe not if you have some sort of world-saving job, but i think thats kind of rare...)

So im quite suprised to see all of you guys getting yelled at for this. =/
Is sweden so different from the rest of the world? Or is it just the people i know that are like this?

[revots33]

OK I'm sure I'm gonna get flamed posting this. But I don't really blame the parents.

Imagine you don't play poker, don't understand the skill aspect, think of it as gambling just like craps, slots, etc. This is how most people think of poker.

Now, imagine you've got a daughter. One who might potentially marry a guy who sits home and plays online slots all day. (Again, poker and slots are the same to you - you don't know any better). He's gotten "lucky" so far, so he assumes he can support your daughter on his slot machine play for the rest of his life. You also know several people who have ruined their marriages and families with addictive gambling.

As a protective parent who loves your daughter - exactly how happy are you supposed to be about this?

I'm not saying you need their approval... but I don't think you could expect a response much different than the one you got.

[TiK]

[ QUOTE ]

Some people handle short term variance better than others.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll say...

[Isura]

Nice story. That's tough with the parents, but not much you can do about the parents now. Maybe in 5 years if you guys are still together and you're still a successful poker player they will start to atleast respect you a little more. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[FlFishOn]

"As far as jeopardizing my relationship with my girlfriend, thats just absurd. I talked to her about it before anyone and we worked out our issues together."

As soon as you think you have some understanding of women and relationships you will get slapped upside the head and you ignorance will really bite you. Cynical? You bet.

"(we have been together for 5 years or so, we have a pretty mature relationship)"

Negative on that. You'd be married if what you say is true. 5 years and unmarried is playing at life.

" As far as them "being part of the fammily" if we get married, I dont see that as an issue either. "

Just ask your GF to choose between you and her family. I await her verdict.

"Im a grown man, what I do and my life choices are my own. I am solely responsible for them, I take the risk and I reap the rewards."

Count the 'I's in that sentence. Couldn't be more selfish if you tried. Mature relationship my ass.

>Toggle off Dr Laura mode<

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
"(we have been together for 5 years or so, we have a pretty mature relationship)"

Negative on that. You'd be married if what you say is true. 5 years and unmarried is playing at life.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're doing an awful lot of judging, considering all you know about the OP are a few things he typed on an internet message board.

Some people simply can't afford to get married right away. Weddings are expensive and stuff.

[TylerD]

get the future in-laws to pay, oh wait...

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"(we have been together for 5 years or so, we have a pretty mature relationship)"

Negative on that. You'd be married if what you say is true. 5 years and unmarried is playing at life.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're doing an awful lot of judging, considering all you know about the OP are a few things he typed on an internet message board.

Some people simply can't afford to get married right away. Weddings are expensive and stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

I proposed to my GF after going out for 5 years. 3 of those years she was still in college. If someone presumed to make judgements about the maturity of our relationship, I'd punch him in the throat.

[SlowStroke]

I loved your post. I can tell by your writings that you will do just fine, both in and out of poker. You are certainly more mature than I was at 25.

Many people have a ridged image of how things are 'suppose' to look and are unable to adjust to things that don't fit their preconceived notions.

Actually, I think the difference is time. The open minded will 'get it' right away. The more ridged minded will 'get it' also, it just takes them longer to come around.

There is a story about Frank Sinatra's mother. Years after he became a huge success, his mother would still ask him when he was going to give up this singing nonsense and get a regular job with a steady paycheck like normal people do.

[Chadt74]

For being a CPA (audit) like business and you'll be fine. Also contrary to popular belief you need to have a personality and like people since you will deal with them alot and have to ask them to change things.

One piece of advice give up poker when studying for the CPA exam. I'm not sure of the SC rules for the exam but unless you plan on taking it one part at a time it is a bitch.

FYI I worked big 5 for my hours and passed all 4 parts in one sitting.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]


Actually, I think the difference is time. The open minded will 'get it' right away. The more ridged minded will 'get it' also, it just takes them longer to come around.

There is a story about Frank Sinatra's mother. Years after he became a huge success, his mother would still ask him when he was going to give up this singing nonsense and get a regular job with a steady paycheck like normal people do.

[/ QUOTE ]

After Dan Harrington won the WSOP he called his Mom who said: "That's nice dear, did you hear about your cousin Padrig? He just won a big golf tournament..."

--Zetac

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

Your gal's parents remind me of mine's. Frickin' narrow-minded half-wits they are. I'm a student and play poker for extra side-cash, and she recently got a "Why don't you get him to quit playing poker and drinking" line from them.

Jesus Christ... I drink casually at parties and play poker online a few days a week and once every friday nights with my buddies...

[kiemo]

[ QUOTE ]
I’m a master at playing this game that is life and staying afloat. )


[/ QUOTE ]


This is probably the reason they consider you lazy.

From how I read this, you do just enough for the now and dont give any consideration for the future, which will involve their daughter.

Poker income is not guranteed money no matter how good you are, bad cards, cold streaks, tilt on a friday night and this months mortgage payment could be missing. Sure your good enough in the long run to make it back, but try explaining to your mortgage company that you are running bad, but over 500k hands you are winning 2bb/100 so you are almost guranteed to make it up in a month or two. Not a good situation for someone who just likes to 'stay afloat'.

Its also a little scary from my perspective that you, like so many, rely on playing 8 tables at once in order to make a living. Again no consideration for the future. If the internet bursts or slows down how are you prepared to make up lost income? Playing one table at the B&M with no pokertracker, gametime, instant pot number, etc.. is going to be a bit different and more time consuming, can you continue to make a living doing it?

I see her parents POV on this one and from what you wrote here I am kinda on their side (except without the hysterical reaction). I understand better then they do how poker is less gambling then blackjack and slots, and yet I wouldnt want my daughter to be seriously dating a 'professional interenet poker player', especially one that has shown no plan for the future. In the end though the decision is my daughters and I would have support her 100%. On the bright side though, father pushing for girl to get rid of guy is a surefire way for girl to stay with guy, so she isnt going anywhere until shes 30 and you tell her you really dont want kids.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

Audit here. I have an internship this summer (not big 4, small firm.) I'm graduating this summer and then have 1 year for 150hr req/and study for the exam.

Stop playing poker? Wow, that exam really sounds like a biotch from every person I've talked to. I think next year at this time will be slightly harder than the 10 hour semester I'm taking now /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Chadt74, thanks for the advice. Actually, we've talked a lot about the importance of negotiation and communication in my audit class. I do like business. If I like being a CPA great, if not, I'll play poker.

-Craig

[WLVRYN]

Not trying to hijack the original post, just answering a question here. I just spent 9 long years in audit at a big 5 firm and left as a senior manager. Big 5 life is a grind with long hours (which will severely cut into poker time), crappy pay and a fair amount of stress, but there are also good benefits (flexibility, quick upward mobility, access to high levels of company management, etc). PM me if you want more gory details.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"(we have been together for 5 years or so, we have a pretty mature relationship)"

Negative on that. You'd be married if what you say is true. 5 years and unmarried is playing at life.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're doing an awful lot of judging, considering all you know about the OP are a few things he typed on an internet message board.

Some people simply can't afford to get married right away. Weddings are expensive and stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Homer is right. I know both Reprocess and his gf irl, and I'd be quite surprised if they didn't work out.

-Craig

[sourbeaver]

Great post. That took a helluva lot of courage IMHO. I usually save my respect for people I know at least a little, but that earned it for you right there.

My coming out to the in-laws wasn't nearly has brutal since they heard it from my dad (which happens to go out with my girlfriend's mom, talk about "family" dinners...).

Basically, it's the 'ole "It's fun, until you lose it all" mentality for my in-laws.

My mom and dad have been very cool about it so far. I must admit I get a lot more crap and cheap jokes from my closest friends than from my parents. Those same friends I've been playing home games with for 5-6 years, go figure...

[BruinEric]

I enjoyed your story. It was well written and intersting.

My unrequested two cents...

No matter your belief in your abilities and track record, it is not out of bounds for the parents to know that most people who say they are going to gamble for a living will not make enough money to support a family and maintain good benefits such as health plan and retirement plan. These are the some of the things that a parent wants for their child and possible spouse.

The odds are against an entrant to the "gambling for a living" career. Similarly, if you were a college freshman with a basketball scholarship, the chances of you making big bucks in the pros are minimal. You may have the skills and potential, but their 'doubting' isn't outside the realm of reasonability.

Part of the problem was exacerbated by your girlfriend not letting her family know that you make $40k to $50k in a "side job" so at least they didn't have the built in belief that you're a mooch. That foundational "knowledge" that you were a slacker / mooch didn't help the conversation for sure.

Best of luck to you.

[FlFishOn]

"You're doing an awful lot of judging, considering all you know about the OP are a few things he typed on an internet message board."

Agreed. It just spoke volumes to me so I said my piece.

"Some people simply can't afford to get married right away. Weddings are expensive and stuff. "

Getting married is $200 bucks. Not married after 5 years? What are you waiting for? A better offer? You're avoiding commitment and real life.

[FlFishOn]

"Homer is right. I know both Reprocess and his gf irl, and I'd be quite surprised if they didn't work out."

I didn't judge their future success. I will if you're interested.

Five years with no future commitment is immature, short term thinking.

People grow up. I know I did. Took a while.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

[ QUOTE ]
I will if you're interested.


[/ QUOTE ]

nope.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
"Homer is right. I know both Reprocess and his gf irl, and I'd be quite surprised if they didn't work out."

I didn't judge their future success. I will if you're interested.

Five years with no future commitment is immature, short term thinking.

People grow up. I know I did. Took a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is stupid. In a day and age where so many marraiges end in divorce, I don't think you should be ALLOWED to marry without dating for 5+ years and living together for at least 2.

Krishan

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
Getting married is $200 bucks. Not married after 5 years? What are you waiting for? A better offer? You're avoiding commitment and real life.

[/ QUOTE ]

What kind of wedding costs $200?

[etgryphon]

Good Job on coming out. Sounded like you handled it in the most mature way possible. I would reiterate what others have posted that people will always have preconceived notion about Poker or Gambling in general. But, as Hyman Roth used to say, "This is the business we have chosen..."

Couple of words of advice:

1. Check up on your GF a lot about your profession and her parents. There is nothing worse than having your in-laws berate you whenever they talk to your GF. Whether she agrees with them or not it can be wearing to hear people who have or had a great influence in her life berate you. Talk about it alot.

2. Poker is risky because their things like insurance and mortigages that are tough to get because of it. A Cash existance is good but tough.

3. Remind yourself that your GF parents probably reacted that way because they LOVE their daughter, which you appearantly do as well, Remember since you love her can you really blame someone else for loving her too. This can help you in keeping things in perspective and keep a calm dialog with them if possible.

4. 5 years together...I'm voting you make an honest girl out of her. As the saying goes, "Sh*t, or get off the pot". But, make sure your GF is not waiting for you to stop this poker "phase". My wife was all for poker when I started playing, but it takes a lot of communication to keep that way. Anyway, Decide what you want just make sure you COMMUNICATE.

5. To the person who said that people shouldn't get married until they have dated for 5 year and lived together for two. I hate to break it to you but statistics show that these people divorce at the same or higher rate than the general population. The key to a long health marriage is that both parties are in it 100% not 50/50 and communication.

Well, I'm going to get off the soapbox now. Best of luck to the whole thing.

-Gryph

[FlFishOn]

"What kind of wedding costs $200? "

I got married at City Hall and the total nut was < $200.

You need a big wedding? Finance it. Start married life in debt.

[mts]

Well written. I don't mean to be offensive but you had me laughing a couple times. You sound like the same type of guy i am.

I'm a few years younger than you so i don't have to convince any inlaws yet but i think i did a pretty good job of explaining my poker "addiction" (as my mom calls it) in terms of statistics and math. You know the routine, never play outside your bankroll and you won't bust (as long as you're a winning player); standard deviations and swings; longterm wins vs shorterm losses. I told my parents to try and understand poker before they try and pass judgement. Lo and behold... i got them playing with their friends!!! haha

I wouldn't know how to go about explaining it as a profession though. Maybe you can lie to them and say you found a job and play poker recreationally with profits only. lol gl at thanksgiving and christmas. That's gonna be hell.

[etgryphon]

[ QUOTE ]

You need a big wedding? Finance it. Start married life in debt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhh...I hope this is a joke...This is a definate -EV move.

-Gryph

[RydenStoompala]

Real reasons to hate you:

"Mr. and Mrs. Nevertobeinlaws, I play poker for a living. That's not the bad news. I'm into Vinny No Shoes for 17 large and I had to sell your daughter to a consortium out of Hong Kong. How do you like me now?"

"You're probably wondering what I do for a living. Truth is, while your daughter thought that we were having intimate alone time, I videotaped everything and started a successful online porn empire."

"I know you're not going to like this, but I gamble for a living. You're going to like this even less: I lost your house in a draw poker game playing against a meth dealer from Detroit."

"I dont know why you dont like me, so I have decided to play poker for 24 hours a day for ten years until I can figure it out. Stop staring at me."

"I know you want only the best for your daughter. That's why I am taking her to Vegas with me so she can waitress at the Venetian whenever I go bust. It's a plan! You wanted a plan!"

"Let me help you with this whole misconception you have about my committment to life. I am a dedicated gambler. I promise you I wont change."

"I'd like to keep chatting about life and careers but there's a super-loose $500 buy-in NL game happening downtown and I need to get there. Can you spot me a c-note?"

"I know you're worried about your daughter's future with me. Dont be. She's going to love staying at home with the kids while I tour the orient with Phil Ivy and listen to bad beat stories from retired hookers. Trust me, this really does beat a desk job."

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
"What kind of wedding costs $200? "

I got married at City Hall and the total nut was < $200.

You need a big wedding? Finance it. Start married life in debt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I don't need any more debt, I have plenty already. Besides, for most women, their wedding day is a big event in their life, so why not wait until you have enough money to have a nice one?

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Getting married is $200 bucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahah!

/wipes tears

AAAAAAhhahahahahahahahahahhh!!!!!!!

WTF?

[mistrpug]

[ QUOTE ]
Not married after 5 years? What are you waiting for? A better offer? You're avoiding commitment and real life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some people here are very presumptuous.

[callydrias]

[ QUOTE ]
Getting married is $200 bucks. Not married after 5 years? What are you waiting for? A better offer? You're avoiding commitment and real life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you're right. You know by 6 years you should also have 1.8 children otherwise the relationshop is a shallow farce. Oh yeah, don't forget the house in the 'burbs and a dependable car.

Or...maybe your idea of a relationship is just one of many. Sure, it might work for you, but some/many/most(?) of us prefer to live our lives the way we choose without regard to your opinion of our maturity level. Not only haven't you hear from Reprocess about the reasons he's been in a 5 year relationship (as if it should matter to anyone else), you haven't heard from his girlfriend either. That makes you approximately 0% informed.

Get off your self-righteous soap box or find an audience who watches daytime talk shows.

P.S. Dr. Laura can burn in hell.

(Whoah, dunno why that got me so worked up - feels good to vent though /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[mosquito]

[ QUOTE ]
Real reasons to hate you:

"Mr. and Mrs. Nevertobeinlaws, I play poker for a living. That's not the bad news. I'm into Vinny No Shoes for 17 large and I had to sell your daughter to a consortium out of Hong Kong. How do you like me now?"

"You're probably wondering what I do for a living. Truth is, while your daughter thought that we were having intimate alone time, I videotaped everything and started a successful online porn empire."

"I know you're not going to like this, but I gamble for a living. You're going to like this even less: I lost your house in a draw poker game playing against a meth dealer from Detroit."

"I dont know why you dont like me, so I have decided to play poker for 24 hours a day for ten years until I can figure it out. Stop staring at me."

"I know you want only the best for your daughter. That's why I am taking her to Vegas with me so she can waitress at the Venetian whenever I go bust. It's a plan! You wanted a plan!"

"Let me help you with this whole misconception you have about my committment to life. I am a dedicated gambler. I promise you I wont change."

"I'd like to keep chatting about life and careers but there's a super-loose $500 buy-in NL game happening downtown and I need to get there. Can you spot me a c-note?"

"I know you're worried about your daughter's future with me. Dont be. She's going to love staying at home with the kids while I tour the orient with Phil Ivy and listen to bad beat stories from retired hookers. Trust me, this really does beat a desk job."

[/ QUOTE ]

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
What you gonna do in 3 years when this bubble bursts?

[/ QUOTE ]
How old are you? Do you think that there was no poker before the travel chanel invented it? There have been good poker games for decades. Do you think they are all going to disappear in three years? Is the Commerce going to go out of business? At worst, he'll be forced to move to an area with good games available. So what? There are lots of jobs (most jobs) where you can't really be confident that you aren't going to lose your current employer or have to move to a new location for work-related reasons some time in the next five years.

[PITTM]

i must say, im impressed with the way you handled it and that it is frustrating how deep people's misconceptions of poker really are. nice work dude.

rj

[PuertoKid]

Nice story. I like your confidence and self-assurance.

Playing poker for a living may or may not turn out to be a good long-term plan for you. Certainly if your experience is primarily limited to 5/10 and below limits, you are a babe in the woods in the poker world. In many ways, trying to be a professional poker player is like trying to be a professional musician. Most up-and-coming musicians struggle to make ends meet and wind up taking other jobs down the road. A few become very successful. The really successful ones wouldn't have gotten to where they are without taking the risk. Bruce Springsteen's parents kept telling him he should go back to college even after he was touring for the "Darkness on the Edge of Town" album.

Do avoid being unidimensional. Those busted-out musician's who only ever had the music wound up taking unfulfilling jobs. The multidimensional muscian's who had and pursued other interests besides music mostly ended up doing all right with some great experiences in music to look back on.

[beernutz]

[ QUOTE ]
Not trying to hijack the original post, just answering a question here. I just spent 9 long years in audit at a big 5 firm and left as a senior manager. Big 5 life is a grind with long hours (which will severely cut into poker time), crappy pay and a fair amount of stress, but there are also good benefits (flexibility, quick upward mobility, access to high levels of company management, etc). PM me if you want more gory details.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to hijack your hijack but I spend 4 long years with Ernst & Whinney back in the 80s that seemed like 9 long years and I double dittos your assessment of audit life.

[sfwusc]

Dont tell me these things.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I start with a big 4 in the fall.

SFWUSC

[WLVRYN]

I didnt even realize that I typed Big Five into my post until I read the quote. Funny. That's what 9 years does to you. You dont even know how many firms are out there.

[Reprocess]

TY everyone for their replies, regardless of your take on the story.

Also thanks for all the concern and warning about going out and trying to be a successfull proffesional poker player.

For me, I realize that I may only do this for 5 years or so and use this as a spring board for other endeavors, however I have no plan to abandon this choice and view this as a career choice for life. (This is what I want and plan to do, but I understand life can get in the way of your expectations sometime, I dont plan to fail, but will be prepared if I do).

As far as the plans go to have something to fall back on and not being unidimensional, I think I have that pretty well covered. I have a degree and a few years of graduate school, If I can't figure out how to make it somehow with all that, then I guess I really do deserve the title of loser.

GL to you all.

[MS Sunshine]

"Tell her you are tired of being treated like a moron and don't want to be around her parents until they can learn to treat you like an adult who is capable of making his own decisions."

Whoa whoa whoa.

Important life lesson:

Don't ever say anything bad about her parents.

Not ever. Don't even nod your head when she says something bad about them. Non-commit is your mantra. Her parents are the third rail of relationships. Touch it and you die.

MS Sunshine

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
5. To the person who said that people shouldn't get married until they have dated for 5 year and lived together for two. I hate to break it to you but statistics show that these people divorce at the same or higher rate than the general population. The key to a long health marriage is that both parties are in it 100% not 50/50 and communication.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, who knew. Can you point me to an article or website?

Krishan

[Mother Mucker]

I see that there are quite a few CPA's and wannabe CPA's on here.

I graduated from Drexel University last June with an acccounting degree and plan on taking the test this summer. I'm working for a firm now (not a huge one, but a decent size public accounting one) and am pulling 55 hours a week. Once April 15th passes, we go back to 35 hours a week which is cake. Regardless, I understand where a lot of you guys are coming from. You love poker and you're good at it. And those of you that do it for a living, I admit....I'm jealous. That's my goal one day. I'm pretty good at it but not great yet and with a bankroll of about $1200, I still have some saving to do. After saying all that, I still am going to sit for the test and get my cert. It's always nice to have something to fall back on.

Good luck.

[sfwusc]

That goods for me as well. (Getting the CPA lic)

I want to have my own business. So I plan on saving for that as well. (Poker seems to be helping that a lot)

SFWUSC

[Emperor]

This is absolutely correct, you can google divorce statistics.

The group with the lowest divorce rate are those who don't live together before marriage. People in that group make a committment to be with their spouse outside of things that they might learn after living together.

[SuitedSixes]

You should have listened to your girlfriend.

[etgryphon]

Sure Krishan,

Here are two links.
Cohabitation Before Marriage (http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5025b_qa.html)
Living together before Marriage, Does it Help? (http://www.family.org/cforum/fosi/marriage/cohabitation/a0025248.cfm)

Now, this doesn't go to say that there aren't people that can't live together and then get married and stay that way. But, hey we are gamblers here and it seems like this is a -EV move. Like I said earlier, the real issue is communication and humility and putting your spouse first. That doesn't mean you need to cave in to your spouse's/girlfriend's demands. You just have to take the time to communicate about it and don't be stubborn make changes if they are necessary.

-Gryph

[CountDeMonet]

F... them where they breathe, that'll stop them from yelling.

CountDeMonet

[dlk9s]

[ QUOTE ]
(but still worried understandably, it’s hard not to worry when you don’t completely understand such a risky endeavor)

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, I do understand such a risky endeavor and I'd worry if my kid wanted to become a full-time poker player. A bad day at work means you actually lose money. A bad day at a "normal" job and you still bring home a paycheck.

That said, best of luck, and your potential in-laws need to get a grip.

[KKbluff]

I think the easiest way to show someone that poker is not a gamble (well, -EV gamble that is) for a good poker player is to compare it to CHESS. Was the only analogy that has ever worked for enough for my parents to understand... (luckly my girlfriends father used to be a pool hustler so i didnt have any problems on that side)