settle a baseball debate part 2

[threeonefour]

thanks to all who replied for the help on the first part.

here is the second debate. first, if anyone would produce any documentation confirming this or anything in the first debate I would greatly appreciate it.

Question:
which handedness(left or right) has a natural advantage playing the following positions in baseball and why?

1st base?
2nd base?
3rd base?
SS?
catcher?

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]

1st base?
2nd base?
3rd base?
SS?
catcher?

[/ QUOTE ]

first - left handed. better catching/pivot positions.
second - right. easier to throw to first.
short - right as well, easier to throw to first
third - see the former 2

catcher - doesn't really matter. throws to 3rd are easier rh, but first is easier lh

[MEbenhoe]

1st base = left

All else = right

2nd, SS, and 3rd should be obvious to anyone who's ever played any of these positions. 1st has to do with the which handedness allows for greater ease in catching throws from the other infielders, along with which allows the 1st baseman to make throws to 2nd, 3rd, or home. Catcher is right handed because the majority of batters are right handed, thus it is easier for a right handed catcher to make a throw to pick off a baserunner if they are right handed.

[JTG51]

"first, if anyone would produce any documentation confirming this or anything in the first debate I would greatly appreciate it."

It may not be proof, but it says here (http://www.purebaseball.com/editorial/Storvick/storvick110100.asp) near the end of the third paragraph that the average right handed hitter takes a tenth of a second longer to get from home to first than the average left handed hitter in MLB.

[threeonefour]

[ QUOTE ]
1st base = left

All else = right

2nd, SS, and 3rd should be obvious to anyone who's ever played any of these positions. 1st has to do with the which handedness allows for greater ease in catching throws from the other infielders, along with which allows the 1st baseman to make throws to 2nd, 3rd, or home. Catcher is right handed because the majority of batters are right handed, thus it is easier for a right handed catcher to make a throw to pick off a baserunner if they are right handed.

[/ QUOTE ]


once again we see eye to eye...

initially, I though SS my be handedness neutral since he can more easily field balls hit between 2nd and third base with the glove in his right hand. of course balls are also hit right up the center but they are often fielded by the pitcher so I though a leftie might gain enough to compensate for having to throw to first from his left hand.

after thinking about it for a moment i came to the conclusion that this probably isn't right and thats it's way more important to be able to throw to first as quickly as possible.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]


catcher - doesn't really matter. throws to 3rd are easier rh, but first is easier lh

[/ QUOTE ]

LH Catchers are largely non existent. If you're left-handed and have a good arm, you're put at pitcher. If you suck and can hit, you're put in right field.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Question:
which handedness(left or right) has a natural advantage playing the following positions in baseball and why?

1st base?
2nd base?
3rd base?
SS?
catcher?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take a stab at it :

For 3B I would say a left-handed player would be best. It's always easier to get a ground ball down the line if your glove is on that side than reaching across your body. Also since there's no reaching across your body, you can play further off the line than a right-handed person closing the "the hole" between 3B and SS.

For 1B you would think from my above logic I'd say right-handed, but 1B is different than 3B so left-handed is better. For 1, a 1B plays deeper than a 3B does so you have more time to reach to a ball down the line. You don't need those extra few steps and the advantage of having your glove on the side of the line because you have more time to react.

Also, if you're holding a runner on, you are facing the play where a right-hander holding a runner on 1st will almost have his back to the play. If they don't and face the batter, they are taking length off their tagging ability.

For SS I'd say a right-handed player is ideal. If a left-handed player goes into the hole to get a ball, it's near impossible to have a chance to throw a guy out. You might lose a little ground up the middle, but that's what a pitcher is for.

For C, the only advantage I could see is if the opposing lineup was heavy on one side. It then could make some throws easier to have the throwing hand clear. In all though I really don't see a difference here.

2B is another position where I don't think it would matter much.

[tech]

At any level beyond Little League, a lefty is at a HUGE disadvantage anywhere in the infield except 1B. The reason is because of the throws you have to make. A lefty has to make a big pivot from those spots, whereas righties can just step and throw.

[kerssens]

It matters....I'm left-handed and throwing from any of the infield positions to first is incredibly aukward....1B - left...all other infield positions - right....catcher - right

[threeonefour]

[ QUOTE ]
LH Catchers are largely non existent. If you're left-handed and have a good arm, you're put at pitcher. If you suck and can hit, you're put in right field.

[/ QUOTE ]

i knew there weren't many left handed catchers but never thought that this was the reason why.

[arod4276]

bigstud as well as tech are 1000 percent correct.. arod4276

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LH Catchers are largely non existent. If you're left-handed and have a good arm, you're put at pitcher. If you suck and can hit, you're put in right field.

[/ QUOTE ]

i knew there weren't many left handed catchers but never thought that this was the reason why.

[/ QUOTE ]

LH Pitchers are just so valuable that as long as you have a decent arm, teams will give you a chance.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
It matters....I'm left-handed and throwing from any of the infield positions to first is incredibly aukward....1B - left...all other infield positions - right....catcher - right

[/ QUOTE ]

It can be awkward if you have bad mechanics. A lefty has to run up on the ball and pivot around it to square off to get a good throw. At second base, you have an eternity to throw someone out. Plenty of time for a lefty if you got good mechanics.

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
For 3B I would say a left-handed player would be best. It's always easier to get a ground ball down the line if your glove is on that side than reaching across your body. Also since there's no reaching across your body, you can play further off the line than a right-handed person closing the "the hole" between 3B and SS.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are FAR fewer down the line ground balls for a third baseman than in the hole. Down the line, if its hit RIGHT down the line, you have very little chance because the reaction time is so small. You don't want your third baseman reaching across his body to get grounders in the hole because he won't get any of them. Plus, fielding bunts will become impossible because all your momentum is taking you forward. A lefty would have to stop completely, turn 90 degrees, then fire to first. You'd never get anyone out.

[ QUOTE ]
2B is another position where I don't think it would matter much.

[/ QUOTE ]

All infield positions need right handed players because of throwing. For every position (except first where throwing is not important), the base is on their glove side, which means they don't have to twist around to throw. This is why, when playing a position like second base, you learn to throw sidearm, because you can field the ball facing home, and then throw without having to turn your body. A lefty would have to turn at least 90 degrees to make a throw.

[Sooga]

There was a theory that as a left-handed catcher, your throws to second base would naturally sail 'away' from the runner due to its spin, making caught stealings a bit more difficult than if you were righty.. but I don't think there's been any actual proof of this.

[Jack of Arcades]

Most likely a theory made up to justify their actions. Baseball peopple don't know much the reasons why they do anything.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For 3B I would say a left-handed player would be best. It's always easier to get a ground ball down the line if your glove is on that side than reaching across your body. Also since there's no reaching across your body, you can play further off the line than a right-handed person closing the "the hole" between 3B and SS.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are FAR fewer down the line ground balls for a third baseman than in the hole. Down the line, if its hit RIGHT down the line, you have very little chance because the reaction time is so small. You don't want your third baseman reaching across his body to get grounders in the hole because he won't get any of them. Plus, fielding bunts will become impossible because all your momentum is taking you forward. A lefty would have to stop completely, turn 90 degrees, then fire to first. You'd never get anyone out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once again I go back to talking about mechanics. Good mechanics can solve everything you just said.

1)There is no going in the hole for 3rd baseman. You either get the ball hit down the line or hit to you. If you're making an effort to track a ball down in the hole, it's better left for the SS. If you want to go into the hole though, a left-hander will have the best chance because they will be running the way they are throwing. A right-hander will be throwing across his body, which is never a good thing.

To get a bunt, I think a lefty is better. You must have good mechanics and pivot around the ball, but then you're facing 1st base and it's an easy throw. How many times do you see a righty do the 1/2 dive/throw off balance on a bunt. You don't get that with a lefty.

[sam h]

[ QUOTE ]
catcher - doesn't really matter. throws to 3rd are easier rh, but first is easier lh

[/ QUOTE ]

But since there are more right handed batters, right handed catchers have an overall advantage throwing to second, especially when the hitter swings.

[threeonefour]

well as i suggested earlier I first thought it was right for all positions except SS which was neutral(which I now realize I was wrong about) and 1b which is left.

my roommate thought it was right for all positions.

[MEbenhoe]

to settle this argument:

Name me one successful left handed major league 2B, SS, or 3B from the past 20 years.

[Dead]

If your kid is a lefty, you need to teach him to play the outfield or first base. He won't be successful at SS, 3B, or 2B.

[JTG51]

Are you seriously arguing that it's better to be left handed as a third baseman, or are you just pulling everyone's leg?

[threeonefour]

[ QUOTE ]
to settle this argument:

Name me one successful left handed major league 2B, SS, or 3B from the past 20 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

but would the same be true of right handed first baseman? I know most are left handed. is the advantage gap less or more at first base than the other bases?

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
If your kid is a lefty, you need to teach him to play the outfield or first base. He won't be successful at SS, 3B, or 2B.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way, if your kid is a lefty, you teach him how to pitch. I'm hoping whenever I choose to procreate, that my kid is a lefty for this sole purpose /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[JTG51]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LH Catchers are largely non existent. If you're left-handed and have a good arm, you're put at pitcher. If you suck and can hit, you're put in right field.

[/ QUOTE ]

i knew there weren't many left handed catchers but never thought that this was the reason why.

[/ QUOTE ]

LH Pitchers are just so valuable that as long as you have a decent arm, teams will give you a chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it has a lot more to do with how much less often a right handed catcher will have his throw to second blocked by the batter.

Left handed pitchers aren't especially valuable in little league where most catchers start playing the position.

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no going in the hole for 3rd baseman. You either get the ball hit down the line or hit to you. If you're making an effort to track a ball down in the hole, it's better left for the SS. If you want to go into the hole though, a left-hander will have the best chance because they will be running the way they are throwing. A right-hander will be throwing across his body, which is never a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can only guess you've never played third base. You cannot just leave balls in the hole hoping the shortstop will get it. Any grounders 3-4 feet to the left of a third baseman are HIS grounders and he needs to make them, unless you have Ozzie Smith playing short who can cover the entire infield by himself. If you have a third baseman who cannot make those plays, the best a SS can do is keep the ball on the infield. A lefty 3Bman cannot make any plays comfortably to his left, and there are far more plays to his left than to his right.

[ QUOTE ]
To get a bunt, I think a lefty is better. You must have good mechanics and pivot around the ball, but then you're facing 1st base and it's an easy throw. How many times do you see a righty do the 1/2 dive/throw off balance on a bunt. You don't get that with a lefty.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're kidding, right? If you try and pivot around the ball you would NEVER EVER EVER get ANYONE out on a bunt attempt. EVER. The reason you see third baseman throwing off balance is BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO TIME TO PIVOT OR DO ANYTHING BUT PICK UP THE BALL AND THROW. If I was managing a baseball team and saw a lefty third baseman, I would have every single batter bunt to him until he's playing 50 feet away, then I'd have them swing away and kill him on grounders that he can't react to. You must understand that there is a REASON that there are precisely ZERO lefthanded third baseman, right?

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
to settle this argument:

Name me one successful left handed major league 2B, SS, or 3B from the past 20 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

I explicityly said SS is not good for lefty. I said a 2B doesn't really matter all that much.

3B is the only one I think it's an advantage to have a lefty. Obviously no one thinks the same as me, which is fine. I don't believe there has ever been a true left-handed 3B in the majors though.

[Dead]

You know what's [censored] up?

I'm supposed to be left handed, but I pitch right handed and kick a soccer ball right handed. I also shoot a basketball right handed.

The things that I use my left hand for are using a fork and writing.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you seriously arguing that it's better to be left handed as a third baseman, or are you just pulling everyone's leg?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was fun for a little while /images/graemlins/smile.gif

What can I say, I'm bored... I think it was pretty easy to tell with some of the reverse stupid arguements I was trying to make like fielding a bunt would be easier /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Same goes with 2B but no one bit on that one too hard as there not being much of a difference. I figured someone would ask me how the hell is a lefty going to throw someone out if they go up the middle to get a ball.

[JTG51]

"I don't believe there has ever been a true left-handed 3B in the majors though."

Probably just a coincidence.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
"I don't believe there has ever been a true left-handed 3B in the majors though."

Probably just a coincidence.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's not a coincidence.

I'll let others continue to elaborate.

[drdre2001mm]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks to all who replied for the help on the first part.

here is the second debate. first, if anyone would produce any documentation confirming this or anything in the first debate I would greatly appreciate it.

Question:
which handedness(left or right) has a natural advantage playing the following positions in baseball and why?

1st base?
2nd base?
3rd base?
SS?
catcher?

[/ QUOTE ]

1st-lefty
rest-righty

[Jack of Arcades]

No.

[JTG51]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"I don't believe there has ever been a true left-handed 3B in the majors though."

Probably just a coincidence.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's not a coincidence.

I'll let others continue to elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's incredible how much you've taught me tonight.

First, the Yankees didn't win a World Series in the 80's. Now, it's not a coincidence that there aren't any left handed third basemen.

What would I do without you, Dead?

[JTG51]

Thanks.

[Dead]

You'd probably be very bored. /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Jack of Arcades]

If we were talking about a long history of left-handed 3B, and there were just none in the league now, I'd agree. But you think it's just a coincidence that there have been few, if any, LH throwing 3B in the majors?

It's not just a coincidence. Whether or not there's a good reason for it is another matter, but there're reasons.

[Dead]

I'm pretty sure JTG was being sarcastic. heheehee /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[The Armchair]

Lefty 1B have an easier time holding runners on. That's the key, plain and simple.

If you need proof, find a square tile on the floor in your house. Put your left hand out -- your glove hand -- so that it would be facing the pitcher's mound.

Note where your back is facing. Home plate! You literally have you back to the action.

To get around this, when the Mets had Todd Zeile (and later Mike Piazza) at 1B, Bobby Valentine devised and later Art Howe used this weird hop-step maneuver where the 1B basically moved with the runner for five steps. It is interesting and effective, although hardly ideal. But you can't teach a guy to throw lefty.

[JTG51]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure JTG was being sarcastic. heheehee /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[Rick Diesel]

A left-handed third baseman would not have a chance in hell of throwing out any decent bunt, because they would have to field the ball on the run and then stop and completely turn their body to make the throw to first.

[Rick Diesel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It matters....I'm left-handed and throwing from any of the infield positions to first is incredibly aukward....1B - left...all other infield positions - right....catcher - right

[/ QUOTE ]

At second base it would be MUCH harder for a lefty to turn a double play
It can be awkward if you have bad mechanics. A lefty has to run up on the ball and pivot around it to square off to get a good throw. At second base, you have an eternity to throw someone out. Plenty of time for a lefty if you got good mechanics.

[/ QUOTE ]

[GuyOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks to all who replied for the help on the first part.

here is the second debate. first, if anyone would produce any documentation confirming this or anything in the first debate I would greatly appreciate it.

Question:
which handedness(left or right) has a natural advantage playing the following positions in baseball and why?

1st base?
2nd base?
3rd base?
SS?
catcher?

[/ QUOTE ]

There really is no debate on any of this. 2nd, 3rd, SS, and C all need to throw and field right-handed. 1B is better left-handed, but the difference isn't as big as the other positions.

GoT

[GuyOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're making an effort to track a ball down in the hole, it's better left for the SS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shortstop has the longest throw to first already, but grounders to the hole are very long and require off-balance throws. If the third baseman can get to a grounder to his left, he'd better cut off the damn ball. Much shorter throw, not off-balance, runner not as far up the line when the ball gets to him. Your statement that he should let the SS get to it is ABSURD, along with basically every other statement you've made.

GoT

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you're making an effort to track a ball down in the hole, it's better left for the SS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shortstop has the longest throw to first already, but grounders to the hole are very long and require off-balance throws. If the third baseman can get to a grounder to his left, he'd better cut off the damn ball. Much shorter throw, not off-balance, runner not as far up the line when the ball gets to him. Your statement that he should let the SS get to it is ABSURD, along with basically every other statement you've made.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]
LMAO

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
catcher - doesn't really matter. throws to 3rd are easier rh, but first is easier lh

[/ QUOTE ]

More hitters are RH, so therefore wouldn't it make sense that having a RH catcher would be easier for thrwoing to 2b as the RH hitters would get in the way of a LH catcher? Or do they get out of the way quickly enough?

[Drac]

If there's any advantage to a lefty playing first it's pretty slim. You see them there because it's the only place you can put them other than OF. Any righty that can field and throw for crap will be at 3B if he's an oaf like me or SS or 2B for those lighter of foot.

[Drac]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
catcher - doesn't really matter. throws to 3rd are easier rh, but first is easier lh

[/ QUOTE ]

More hitters are RH, so therefore wouldn't it make sense that having a RH catcher would be easier for thrwoing to 2b as the RH hitters would get in the way of a LH catcher? Or do they get out of the way quickly enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's much tougher to deal with throwing to 2B with a lefty hitter and a righty catcher. In HS I'd go up to bat lefty when our speedster was on first in order to help screw up the catcher's throw. He was never thrown out when we did this (not that he was thrown out much when we didn't). It makes a big difference having the hitter on the same side you throw from.

[andyfox]

Babe Ruth started out as a catcher, and, as you say, with such a good arm, they made him a pitcher.

Other than that, though, I guess it's maybe because there are more right-handed hitters than left-handed ones that there are no left-handed catchers.

[andyfox]

The only lefty I've ever seen play shortstop or third base was Don Mattingly once when the Yankees lost both their third basemen due to injuries. I think he played 4-5 games at third.

[Dead]

I remember when Gary Sheffield(hes a righty) played third base at the end of one game last year. We'd already pinched out the rest of our guys so he was the only one left who could play it.

It was hilarious.

[ThaSaltCracka]

my dad played 3rd base for his fast pitch softball team, and he is LH. Its possible, but rare that a lefty plays anything other than 1B in the infield.

[The Stranger]

one note about left-handed catchers.

I have umpired many high school level games and some college and adult league games and have some professional umpire training.

For some reason that I can't really figure out, on those rare times I work behind a left-handed catcher, I have a much tougher time seeing the pitches, and pivoting away from the catcher when he throws down to second (I position myself closer to the catcher than most umpires).

Most umpires at high school varsity and higher call more strikes the better they can see the pitch. So if there are a lot of umpires out there that have the same problem I do, then it is a disadvantage to have a left-handed catcher.

[tolbiny]

Jim Thome started his big league career out at Third.

[WillMagic]

Name me a single left-handed catcher, 2b, SS or 3B.

They don't exist.

For catchers, it's because you won't be blocked as often throwing to second.

For the position players (other than 1b) imagine this scenario (or act it out, if you so choose). Ground ball well to your right. You get to it, but you've got to throw while moving...but you can't. You need to stop on your right foot, pivot to your left, and then throw.

Now, a right-handed player can a) throw while moving or b) plant his right foot and throw.

Now, this situation reverses when you are moving to your left. But when you are moving to your left you are moving CLOSER TO FIRST BASE, making an off-balance throw easier and more accurate.

Will

[Jack of Arcades]

Gary came up as a shortstop. That didn't work out, he's a butcher anywhere in the field.