I'm leaving this game for a little bit

[Mikey]

Ok....honestly right now.....i just can't take it anymore....playing poker.....and dealing with the losses.....don't get me wrong.....i'm a winning player and I have made some good money playing this game......but I taking a leave of absence from this game......

Right now it's hit me all at once, I just got up from a really really bad session, and throughout the session I was talking with Jeffage....(who is an excellent player) and I apparently recognized this myself that I have leaks in my game..... I apparrantley have many problems..... I sometimes cannot deal with the emotions of the game.....it's not the losing of money....it's just losing....I HATE LOSING PERIOD, whether it's in a game of Checkers or in a game of NFL2K3 on X-box....i hate losing and I feel physcially sick from all of this.....it is just too stressfull...

I'm thinking about evaluating whether I'm going to keep playing this game and if I am..... I'm hitting the books and doing a lot of anotation in each of the books that Mason has written.....David.....and all the other great poker authors...I do have a library of over 30 books so some time will be spent reading and reading and reading and studying.... it's been pointed out to me that all I talk about is bad beats.....AND IT'S TRUE!!! Why do I waste my time talking about bad beats when I'm not learning anything.....nothing at all....just wasted breath after wasted breath.....of "ohh man he rivered the 7 to make a bigger set than my 4's" it has to stop....it's meaningless.....and pointless.....

I have also lost touch with reality, this entire weekend was spent inside my home playing online poker.....and Friday night I shot pool.....for a few hours only to come home and get back on the net....there is no balance in my life anymore.

I have to stop......and reevaluate myself as a person and as a whole before I can step back in the Poker Ring and continue battling......

so for the time being Mikey is out....

[Al Schoonmaker]

Mikey,

If you really feel this way, and the feeling persists, leaving the game is the only sensible action. In fact, it might be better to leave it permanently. Don't come back because its essential nature will never change. You, I, and everyone else will always suffer from bad beats, idiotic plays, etc.

One of the great educational values of poker is that it teaches some people how to handle losing and other forms of adversity. That is an extremely important lesson to learn, but only some people can do it. Your own words say that you can't handle losing at anything.

Poker is a great game, but that it all it is. If it isn't fun, don't play.

Regards,

Al

[Ray Zee]

you need at the least to take more time off and gamble much less. until you can shrug off loses as nothing special you will never be a winning player as it will affect your play. and in poker your edge is so small you need it all. if you cant take losing, losing will get you sometime else in life so you may as well address the problem and deal with it. good luck.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

If you're going to be reading on your hiatus, try "Zen and the Art of Poker" by Larry W. Phillips. It speaks a great deal towards keeping your inner self on an even keel throughtout the ups and downs.

[bernie]

if i had this problem with losing, to the extent that you do, i would think about going to a professional and finding out 'why'.

its not just in cards, but 'any' time you lose, you said. which means it extends well beyond the game. i think the only way to curb the feeling, is to find out 'why', then proceed from there. if left unchecked, it will always be there, looming. and thats not really a fun way to go through life, imo.

self discovery is a great thing.

the more you learn the why that you do things, the stonger your inner being will be in any endeavor you pursue.

good luck...

b

[Jedi Poker]

Mikey, I just sent you a private message.

[roGER]

Sound advice from Bernie.

One observation though. I've not had a great deal to do with professional poker players, but I have spent time with professional racing drivers and footballers (soccer players).

If I had to characterise them, both the drivers and the footballers were very one dimensional people who were obsessed with winning and hated losing. Life for them was merely a sort of boring wait (with the obligatory training and practise sessions) in between the races/matches.

I sometimes wonder if being that obsessed and (frankly) unbalanced is one of the keys to success in any highly competitive situation.

Scary stuff, not entirely sure it applies to poker, but... worth thinking about perhaps?

- roGER

[Clarkmeister]

You are playing NFL2K3 on X box.

Instead, switch to Madden2003 on Playstation. It is a better game (tho 2k3 closed the gap this year). I believe the PS2's online capability is up before XBox's.

Peace.

[SittingBull]

"In order to make a living playing poker,one needs to love it NEXT to BREATHING"!
Can U imagine going thru life with THAT kind of priority?
This tremedous "driving force" will usually create excellent players---but at what cost?? Family? Friends? Personal relations? Smelling the roses? Lack of spiritual awareness? Poisoning of one's inner being?

Hmmmm
Happy pokering,
Sitting Bull

[Jeffage]

Mikey is a good friend of mine, and a very good player. I definitely appreciate the compliment. But, as I have told him in many late night phone conversations, he takes this game WAY too personally. I am playing for a living right now, not bc I really want to, but bc the job market SUCKS. I get by, my bills get paid. But I think one of the reasons for this besides technical know how (and believe me, Im no Mason) is that I do not let losses bother me, and I do not focus on bad beats. I just play every hand as best I can, and try to avoid very good players. If you take the turn of a card to heart, you are not going to be able to play this game. It is just too painful. As for overdoing it, I'm guilty of that too. I think about poker ALL the time, and my life does lack the balance it once had. Friends don't understand, sometimes other activities are less enjoyable. BUT I STRIVE EVERYDAY to keep a balance. You have to. I force myself to go out to the bars with buddies on weekends, to go to the movies, to enjoy art and other good things in life. Even if I'm stuck. Poker is my main interest, but I feel like friends and family are more important. I used to be like you, and not even be able to eat after a bad session. It just isn't worth it. Either you learn to deal with it, or you find something that is gonna treat you better. Bc the cards have no memory, and the people who play poker may be sympathetic on here...but not at the table.

Jeff

Jeffage, good response. None of us are such superior players that we can afford to be sympathetic at the table. Doesn't mean we don't feel bad for the loser, but you just have to play hard and take advantage of every edge within the bounds of the rules and your own ethics.

In the .25/.50 friendly game I play in, I average winning about 4bb/hour and consciously try to help the worse players by staying in with just about anything when they have a hand. But that's for tiny stakes, with my friends an neighbors I see every week, in a game where I am so far the best player that I can pretty much win whenever I want. In the casino, whenever I start feeling sorry for someone, that person inevitably beats the crap out of me shortly thereafter.

[Uston]

Sounds to me like you'd be better off reading Lao Tzu than David Sklansky. This is further reinforced by the one time I played with you. You were using foul language, antagonizing players, making fun of the bad plays made by the bad players, and, basically, acting like a seven year old while making the game less enjoyable and profitable.

[Clarkmeister]

You sure we got the same guy? He was nothing like that when I played with him. Very quiet. Hell, he was so tight I didn't know he was in the game.

Maybe he was afraid of Dynasty? /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Dynasty]

I did river that set of 5's against him. I hope that didn't contribute to the problem.

Uston's description didn't sound like Mikey to me either. But, then again, Jeffage's description of Mikey didn't sound right either and Jeffage talks to him on the phone.

[Mikey]

when was I talking trash?? at the table?
I do have a different attitude vs. Brick & Mortar vs. Online
what website are we talking about.....

[Uston]

It was on Pokerroom, while playing in a 2/4 game, about 4 or 5 weeks ago.

[Pirc Defense]

[Anadrol 50]

Mikey, I can't say that I don't find this amusing. If you guys go back and take a look at some of Mikey's older posts (I am too lazy too look), there is one where he talks about 'beating the schleps' at his home game. He was always way too arrogant and I have seen him belittling players on pokerrom.com for drawing out on him. I find it hard to believe that many of you are feeling sorry for him.

[Mikey]

I would rather be arrogant and belittle players than stand back and fear them. What's wrong with belitting them, "maybe they'll go on tilt" "maybe they'll keep paying me off." When you act arrogant and are good at something, you know you are good at it and I know i'm good at poker because I have results to prove it. But I appreciate the fact that you are keeping your eye on me, you should do it more often, maybe you'll learn a thing or two.

Why can't I carry the attitude like, "I am the best at POKER!!!" Why? because I have to be like you and realize that there are better players out there...I don't play with those players. If you hold yourself back you'll never go forward.

As for me taking time off, I'm not looking for sympathy. I am posting my time off......to get some input....maybe some of these guys on here have had a related experience or understand what I'm going through...so they can give me feedback.

I appreciate the thought, see you on the battle field sometime soldier, ohh and remember you'll never beat me because I AM THE BEST.......

I'm sorry i carry with me a winning attitude....you view it as arrogance, I view it as a state of mind.

[Homer]

There is a difference between having a winning drive/attitude and being an arrogant prick who belittles other players. If you were truly the best you would not feel the need to belittle other players. You would be secure enough in your abilities to know that you would get that money back and then some. Truely great players do not belittle others. They take a beat with the knowledge that they are the better player, and that the other player's bad play is what allows them to survive in this game in the long run. I believe that abusing other players stems from personal insecurity. I think you want to let these players know that you are best, because you are not really sure that you are, so you in essence want to pat yourself on the back to convince yourself. Just remember that the other players have a right to play without being bashed and told that they did something wrong. They have the right to savor the feeling of winning a pot without being harrassed by you. When you are yelling at other players, I don't buy that you are trying to get them on tilt. I believe that you are the one on tilt, and you will come up with any reason to justify your bashing. Good luck, and I hope you can get yourself under control.

-- Homer

[Homer]

The more I read your post the more you sound like a complete jackass. I don't understand why you think there is no in between to:

1) being arrogant and belittling towards other players
2) standing back and fearing them

If you just keep quiet and play a solid game, people will gradually begin to respect and fear your game. You don't need to shove it in their face, and tell them how much they suck and how you are the greatest. It comes off as someone desperate for praise. Those who are truly great at something don't need to use words to show off their prowess. They do it through their unspoken actions (aka their playing). Look at someone like Tiger Woods. I don't remember him ever having to jump in front of a camera to tell everyone how great he is. The other players know that he is great and that he has a unwavering positive attitude towards winning and being the greatest. He, in my mind, is not someone who looks down at the performance of others, but rather looks at his own game and how he can improve/maintain his game. There are plenty of other athletes, poker players, etc, who fit this description. Anyway, I don't know what else I can say. I just think your post comes across as a person who is desperate for the praise of others.

-- Homer

[Anadrol 50]

haha...I see why you HAVE to take a break from the game, you are losing player and have gone bust! I have watched you on pokerroom.com and you play tighter than my grandmother. For someone that is taking time off, you hang around poker message boards a lot. Do all poker players a favor, get a loan (or sell your X Box) and jump back in to the game.

[Mikey]

when I play in a regular casino my lips are sealed and I don't say a word, but sometimes on the online, because I'm sheltered behind my computer screen......I sometimes feel like I have to make a comment for my own personal self gratification. In a live casino, you won't see me say a word.

[Mikey]

I can just tell you are upset at the world, look at your icon for your sake a hand with the middle finger telling me and everyone who looks at to GO * * themselves.

[Homer]

I understand what you are saying but I still think you should try to restrain yourself when playing online.

btw, if I overstepped my bounds in my comments, I apologize. I should not have been so harsh, perhaps, as I do not know you personally, and ideas can easily be misinterpreted in a forum like this.

Good luck

-- Homer

[Mikey]

we are all here to help each other out......and sometimes what gets typed can be misconstrued when you actually read it and interpret it....

best of luck to you.

-Mikey

[Anadrol 50]

Oh Mikey,

Since you are crying for sympathy and help /forums/images/icons/confused.gif /forums/images/icons/frown.gif , I will give you a few clues. This way maybe you can get back in to the game quicker. (let me know what games you have for X-Box, my little cousin may have an intrest)

1 When you belittle someone for drawing out on you (like I witnessed)it will cause them to play more correctly and not do this in the future! See page 17 in TOP.

2 If you consistently judge people by their appearance or their icon, you will stay a loser.

Now Mikey, I hope I wasn't being too mean and didn't hurt your feelings. If you find this too harsh, I will try to be more loving and caring on my next post!

[Al Schoonmaker]

Homer, you wrote:"btw, if I overstepped my bounds in my comments, I apologize. I should not have been so harsh, perhaps, as I do not know you personally, and ideas can easily be misinterpreted in a forum like this."

One of my psych profs once said, "Any conversation that includes an apology can't be all bad." I've seen numerous apologies on this forum, which is one of the reasons I come here and avoid RGP. I'm here to get and give help, and so are most of the other posters. The few who get out of line get pushed off.

I've read the complaints about "censorship," and I think most of them are greatly overstated. The simple fact is that without a moderator, discussions will often get nasty.

On this point, you might like Barry Shulman's comments in the most recent issue of Cardplayer Magazine. He praises this forum highly, and points out that RGP does not have a moderator, which causes or allows lots of nastiness.

Regards,

Al

I am not here to bash anyone, but this is the psych forum so I will tell you what I think. As for Mikey, I don't know you but you do seem somewhat arrogant. What really stood out is a reply to Mikey's post from Anadrol50. You stated that he plays tighter than your grandmother-is this a bad thing?? Secondly, it reminded me of a recent article by Rolf Slotbomm where he talked about the losing players having disdain for some of the regular grinders-that reminds me of Anadrol's comments concerning Mikey. We are all here to learn from each other, constructive criticism is one thing,but it seems there is something personal between the two of you.

No offense, but by the sound and tone of your post I am seriously doubting that you are a winning player. The great thing about poker players (and most gamblers), is that they find a way to say that they are winning players when they are not.

On another note, why would you ever belittle a player for sucking out on you? If you are as tight as people say, than you need loose calls to make any type of profit. Belittling players is only going to accomplish three things.

1)It makes you look like an a**hole
2)It will make people play better, not worse
3)It will make an otherwise pleasent game tense and not fun.

Looking at my brick and mortar stats I can tell that I just barely beat the rake, but poker has provided me with endless hours of free entertainment. If there is someone at the table bitching cause I played A5s out of position, or because I hit a six-outter when I was a little short on pot-odds, it turns my stomach. Hey, I paid my $5.00, or $7.50, or $15.00, or $20.00...let me play my cards.

Hey..I've played in games where the whole table was playing "by the book", and it sucks. On top of being difficult to win, It's usually a bunch of bitter poker players bitching about missing their umpteenth flush in a row. I'd much rather play in a game where people are laughing and joking about bad beats, than one where people are belittling other players. If those are the games you want, than keep belittling the "worse" players at the table. Why not carry HEFAP with you and point out to them the page number and passage that describes the mistake they made?

-huh?

[Mikey]

Ok......first of all.....i do not belittle players all of the time....I do it once in a while.....like maybe once in a month i make a comment about getting sucked out on.....I may say something..like...."you lucky little mutt" I don't sit there and talk garbage all day long......I don't make it part of my strategy......

this stuff about me belitting players is being taken way out of context.....it's not part of my strategy.....i may make a comment like once a month.....and go on a binge of talking stuff at the table, for instance when I lose the last 4 hands in a row....I have not ever talked during a live game, you will never hear me talk......

as far as being a winning player or not.....you'd actually be surprised......

[Mikey]

you said:"I have watched you on pokerroom.com and you play tighter than my grandmother."

Ohh I'm sorry....i'll play a little looser for you. Don't get mad because I'm a winning player. You are infact now trying to belittle me, and look where it's getting you.

This is a forum where we help each other, all you are doing is wasting time writing post that have no such bearing in this case.

I appreciate you looking out for me. ;-)

[Anadrol 50]

My little cousin loves the X-Box and games...