Sanity Check

[KenProspero]

First question -- sitting middle-late position JJ, early in the game.

Two Limpers, so far. What should hero bet.

What I actually did, was bet 7x the big blind, and I thought it was 'too much', but was trying to drive everyone else.

One of the limpers (first raiser)raises 350, which puts him all in, and another calls.

What does hero do? I ended up calling.

Flop comes down 3 rags, 9,4,3 rainbow. There's a possible straight draw, but nothing else apparant.

Second Limper raises all in. I'm trying to imagine what limp, call, raise could be here. Either a monster (AA, KK)
or who knows what. But with .... about 3.5-1 pot odds at this stage, I feel I have to call (taking me all in).

How did I do here, though I won a lot, I admit to being perplexed, therefore would love analysis of my line of play.

Now -- what transpired in the hand. First Raiser, shows A9o. Second one shows 5-6 suited. I wind up winning lots of chips, but am still scratching my head at these raises. Do I rack it up to bad players in a low stakes game, or have I missed something major here.

[codewarrior]

You failed to mention the buy-in.

[KenProspero]

5/.5

(I did say it was a cheap game)

[wuwei]

It would be nice to have a more complete hand history including stack sizes.

Typically, I'll make my standard raise preflop with JJ, sometimes limping to mix it up.

Once the betting is reopened and it comes back to you, I'll typically push there. This is where it would be nice to have stack sizes, which would impact my decision.

After you get to the flop, I agree you have to call.

[KenProspero]

Sorry I didn't have a more complete history -- hand was last night, and I didn't really think about it till this morning.

There were 10 players (all left). Game tends to be pretty loose.

First raiser had about 750 or 800 chips or so. Other Villian had 1500, I had 1500. Blinds were 25/50.

Let me get to what's been bothering me about my play. The second limper put half his chips in with 56s. I really don't see the sanity of this call. If I assume that the player is rational, his all-in bet probably implies a small pair that hits a set.

Given the pot odds, I 'think' I have to swallow hard and call. However, the fact that this game repeatedly has players who make exactly this kind of play suggests that it may be an easier call than I think.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me get to what's been bothering me about my play. The second limper put half his chips in with 56s. I really don't see the sanity of this call. If I assume that the player is rational, his all-in bet probably implies a small pair that hits a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trying to attribute rationality to every play made at the low level buyin sngs will definitely drive you nuts and cause you to make bad folds. Don't do it.

You shouldn't assume every player you meet is terrible, but a number of them are. Observing their play should give you a pretty quick idea of which ones are which.

In this case, even without a read I still call. I call because there's a chance he's terrible and puts his chips in with 56s. I call because there is also the chance that he cold called with some mid pair preflop, and now wants to put you all in so you can't draw at your missed AK.

[lastchance]

If your opponents, by and large, suck here, you push JJ without hesitation. Otherwise, one of them should, key word being should, have an overpair, and you should fold, even given insane pot odds.

BTW, I'd only raise to about 300. Enough to get away on the flop, but also enough to push on the flop.

[skipperbob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

In this case, even without a read I still call. I call because there's a chance he's terrible and puts his chips in with 56s. I call because there is also the chance that he cold called with some mid pair preflop, and now wants to put you all in so you can't draw at your missed AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell me that you're older than 30; with a cogent response like this, I want to think so /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

In this case, even without a read I still call. I call because there's a chance he's terrible and puts his chips in with 56s. I call because there is also the chance that he cold called with some mid pair preflop, and now wants to put you all in so you can't draw at your missed AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell me that you're older than 30; with a cogent response like this, I want to think so /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll be 29 in a couple months.

You catch on to that quote function awful quick. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]

Second Limper raises all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

That means the first limper bet.

From Michael Wiesenberg's dictionary of poker:

raise: In a limit game, this means add a bet equal to the betting limit; in a no-limit game, this means increase by anything equal to or greater than the previous bet or raise in that round of betting.

Somebody has to bet before somebody can raise.

Irieguy

[skipperbob]

[ QUOTE ]
You catch on to that quote function awful quick./images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Only took me two months /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[KenProspero]

Sigh

I guess you're technically right. But I think everyone understood what I was saying.