QQ flop question [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

PokerBob

03-27-2005, 04:10 PM

UTG+1 is a TAG, CO is a fish. What's your plan for the rest of this one?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, CO calls, Hero ???????

rmarotti

03-27-2005, 04:13 PM

Raises and it's not particularly close.

oreogod

03-27-2005, 04:14 PM

More ppl in the pot I say call. Here, raise it. The only thing about waiting for the turn to raise (if they bet)is if a scare card comes for them u are not going to get any more money unless they are calling stations.

TA will probably fold to a turn bet unless hes got something, fish will probably call whatever u throw at him. So raise the flop I say.

EDIT: UTG was TA, no idea on the SB, could have middle pair, two pair -- raise it, he will probably call down, folding to a turn or river bet. But if you have been playing with him a while and think he will bet the turn if u just call the flop, then wait to raise the turn.

GoblinMason (Craig)

03-27-2005, 04:15 PM

If you have a read suggesting that the SB will likely bet the turn, I think this is a fine spot to wait. However, without reads on SB, I'd raise here.

PokerBob

03-27-2005, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is a TAG, CO is a fish. What's your plan for the rest of this one?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, CO calls, Hero ???????

[/ QUOTE ]

PokerBob

03-27-2005, 04:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raises and it's not particularly close.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree it's not close, but I think it's the other way.

jason_t

03-27-2005, 04:25 PM

Waits for the turn, but watches out for the OESD completing.

DMBFan23

03-27-2005, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is a TAG, CO is a fish. What's your plan for the rest of this one?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, CO calls, Hero ???????

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, here SB is betting either

1) JcTc or JsTs or JhTh
2) 22/99

I think he checkraises a hand like QJs, KQs, or AQ. and there aren't really many draws for him to be betting.

and in both cases I want to raise now because he wont bet the draw on the turn, and he'll go to war with the set. it gets slightly complicated with the set because I can wait for the turn there, but if I'm raising AA/KK/AQ in this spot (and I hope I am) then my shania is going to include me raising this. I think I'm going to give him his wish of me raising so he can 3 bet if thats what he wants, or I can get more value from his JT and from the other dude's 98 or queen-[censored] or whatever.

cold_cash

03-27-2005, 04:39 PM

With the CO in on the flop I'm raising 100% of the time.

ErrantNight

03-27-2005, 06:08 PM

i think it's more likely he's betting a draw or a worse set then a worse Q.

in the event of a set, he'll go to war, or pull some tricksy turn play where you can punish him anyway.

if a draw, he'll check to you on the turn and just call a bet.

if a mediocre Q he might check the turn, or he might bet and fold to a raise, or fold the river, if you raise a protected pot, because he doesn't have top pair with a particularly good kicker here.

he's not going anywhere with his OESD, so charge him, and hope he has a set and you can go to war.

i really, really don't like waiting for the turn here.

DMBFan23

03-27-2005, 06:11 PM

agreed, a one pair Q hand would likely checkraise

chesspain

03-27-2005, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
agreed, a one pair Q hand would likely checkraise

[/ QUOTE ]

Checkraising a PF raiser with TP/weak kicker is a way more advanced play than found in the arsenal of the average unknown.

DMBFan23

03-27-2005, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
agreed, a one pair Q hand would likely checkraise

[/ QUOTE ]

Checkraising a PF raiser with TP/weak kicker is a way more advanced play than found in the arsenal of the average unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't SB a TAG?

and if I shouldn't be making that play, I'd like to know now before I spew more chips /images/graemlins/grin.gif, cause if I had like KQs that's how I'd play it

chesspain

03-27-2005, 06:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Checkraising a PF raiser with TP/weak kicker is a way more advanced play than found in the arsenal of the average unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't SB a TAG?

[/ QUOTE ]

No...UTG+1 is the TAG. No read was provided for SB.

DMBFan23

03-27-2005, 06:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: SB was the TAG, not UTG+1 [Re: PokerBob]

[/ QUOTE ]

molawn2mo

03-27-2005, 07:35 PM

consideration should be given to how hero has recently been perceived at the table. has he played a recent hand weakly or acted over aggressively?

to the extent that he appeared weak, then maybe waiting until the turn to raise is better. to the extent that he has been aggro then raising the flop may be better.

so many times the decision relates to how we are perceived rather than our perception of the table.