Trying to get out the better hand

[Schneids]

30/60 ok game Canterbury.

EP limper. He plays pretty tight. He's a solid hand reader. He has a lot of respect for my play.

I raise in LP with AQo.

SB 3 bets. He doesn't play so well. Today he is playing very loose aggressive. EP pauses then calls. I call.

Flop J33. SB bets, EP looks like he's thinking of raising but calls. I quickly raise. SB calls. EP calls.

Turn K. Checked to me, it looks like SB is planning on calling, and I bet.

Standard fare?

[DangerGoodson]

[ QUOTE ]
Schneids,

i haven't been in SSH for a while, but dropped by today and see that you posted a hand. i expected from past experience to see a hand played overly aggressive, and, quite frankly, poorly from preflop onward. you did not disappoint. great poker players do not play like this.

i don't understand why you post hands like this, and why on earth you get so many serious responses. some people actually defend this type of play by you, but put this in the beginner's forumn, and you would have a large portion of ridicule to put up with. try it sometime...sign up to 2+2 under a different moniker. post this exact same hand (maybe change suits, or change something very subtle) in a different forumn.

[/ QUOTE ]

[jgorham]

I think the determination for whether or not this is a good play rests entirely on EP's image of you. If you really think he will fold his 77 or whatever here rather than overcall then it is a great bet, and you can check your A high on the river hoping to beat out laggy.

EP doesn't even have to fold a better hand that often for this bet to be correct, especially with your probable 6 outs, as the pot is fairly large.

[bicyclekick]

At first I hated it, but after further evaluation I think this line actually has some merrit. EP almost surely has a pocket pair and you want his ass off it now. Who knows what the donk has but it's almost surely not a J or K. nh sir.

[flub]

From my reading I'd guess you have the worst hand at the table and should take a free card. EP either has a pp or the J or K hit him. If the loose guy is calling what do you hope he has? ATs? If you get check riased you puke. If you get called you're in bad shape. And it sure looks like you're gonna get called.

-flub

[1800GAMBLER]

But what about SB?

[casinogosain]

[ QUOTE ]
From my reading I'd guess you have the worst hand at the table and should take a free card. EP either has a pp or the J or K hit him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this; EP likely has a pocket pair - 88-TT would be my guess.

I agree that betting here will likely drive out EP, especially if SB calls (which he will, or raises, which he might).

I think there is a reasonable amount of time that SB has AJ/AT and that you are in really bad shape.

-Ash

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
But what about SB?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm fairly confident if SB had a jack or better he 3 bets the flop. I'm also fairly confident that SB will bet the turn if he has a king or will c/r the turn. He is one that will often get chips in his hands indicating what his intended action is going to be, so, I'm not fearing a c/r. I also believe if he had any sort of decent PP (say 88-TT) he'd have 3 bet the flop.

So, I'm gambling SB has AT, AQ, or QT (also possible). SB is loose enough to also call with some worser ace high hands.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this; EP likely has a pocket pair - 88-TT would be my guess.

[/ QUOTE ]
I put EP on 55-77. I didn't say it but FWIW EP would have probably raised stuff above 7's. Also, the game was loose enough that I could see him limping with smaller pocket pairs.

[ QUOTE ]
I think there is a reasonable amount of time that SB has AJ/AT and that you are in really bad shape.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks to the flop action SB doesn't have AJ, and, I'm beating AT.

[worm33]

I dont think theres a huge difference weather you bet or take the free card, you turned a pretty big draw now, I would bet if i was sure the sb wasnt going to checkraise me then I would bet again on the river unless a jack or a king came...3 comes i bet. I dont think A10 calls the river if a 3 came even though you'd have the same hand, but would almost certainly call i think if a king or jack came.