When 2 pair goes bad

[Spicymoose]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB caps</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

The turn card sucks, but I can't fold, right? The reason I bet the river was because I thought the jack might help me by counterfeiting his kicker, but looking back, it only helps me against AT, A8 or below...

Thanks for the help,
Spicymoose

[gaming_mouse]

This guy's play is weird. The only thing I can put him on is like A/images/graemlins/heart.gifx/images/graemlins/heart.gif -- in which case you'd be chopping, so I see no real upside to your river bet, and I think it's incorrect. I can see no hand that he might have that you can bet for value, whereas I could easily see you getting c/raised.

Your turn call is interesting. I might have folded, but the chance that's he's pumping a draw is a valid justification for the call, and the only one I see. And once you call the turn, I think you have to call the river, even if he does bet out again (I'm assuming you have no good reads which could help you lay it down). So anyway, the decision to fold or call down on the turn is pretty close, I think. Curious what others think.

[Nick C]

If you have the best hand on the river, I don't think you're getting paid off very often, except maybe occasionally by a hand like Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif or a maniacally played TT or something. And I don't think Villain is folding an ace. So I think you should take the free showdown on the river.

On the turn, 99, 44, and 94s (which would have to be diamonds) are all mathematically improbable (there's exactly one available combination of each), but SB sure is playing like he loves his hand, and in addition to the hands I've mentioned, we need to worry about A9 and hands like AQ and even AA and 94o. However, SB could also have A /images/graemlins/heart.gif X /images/graemlins/heart.gif, which you could have a fair number of outs against (mostly to chop). Also, the possibility that he just has two hearts can't be ruled out, and neither can another A4.

I think calling the turn is all right, though it's not much fun to call when you'll be relieved if you simply end up taking half the pot. But the lack of a preflop raise by SB does increase the possibility that if he has A /images/graemlins/heart.gif X /images/graemlins/heart.gif, his kicker isn't all that big. And against, say, A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif you have 9 1/2 outs, and against A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif you have 12 1/2 outs.

An interesting question is what you should do on the river if, for instance, the 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif falls and you're bet into again. I'm not sure what would be best then.

[sinfulslick18]

would not put in that river bet. you would either chop or lose more than you would win the whole pot. waste to bet the river.

-sinful