Giant Win the Pennant! Giants Win the Pennant!

[JTG51]

OK, this one may not have been quite as dramatic as 1951, but it was pretty darn exciting.

I'm no Giants fan, and I may be the only person not named Bobby Bonds rooting for Barry Bonds, but I hope he carries them to a World Series. The guy is just unbelieveable. The more people root against him, the more I root for him.

[Clarkmeister]

[JTG51]

Cards fan Clarkmeister?

I was rooting for the Cards in the NL when the post season started. Once my Yanks got knocked out, I jumped on the Giants band wagon for some reason.

I would have liked to see Tino Martinez come back to Yankee Stadium for the World Series though. Maybe next year.

[2005]

ha, I was way off on my picks for the world series this year. I had the A's to win in 6 over the Cardinals... hmmmmm. I don't think many people saw the Twins getting past the A's, but damn they ripped the A's big 3 apart, huh? I'm from Chicago, so I'm used to the saying:"There's always next year!" /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

Gavin

[Clarkmeister]

I am a bigger Card fan than any other team in any sport.

Feel free to take Tino back. His postseason was similar to his regular season. "Good clubhouse guy" only goes so far when you are playing in a position like 1B. I prefer my "good clubhous guys" to play 2B or be utility guys; some position where you don't need 30 and 100 to keep pace with the league.

I've actually been a Bonds fan for a long time. However, I've followed the Angels very closely this year and can't help but root for them. Of course, Lofton's antics make rooting against the Giants considerably easier. I've always respected the Giants, and Dusty in particular. What he does year in year out with makeshift lineups and mediocre payroll is astounding. In my mind he is clearly the best manager in the game, and has been for quite some time.

Fortunately we have Pujols, Rolen, Renterria and Morris to build around. That's not too bad. It could be worse. I could be a Cubs fan. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[JTG51]

I loved Tino as a Yankee, but I don't want him back. I think I'll stick with Giambi. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif I hear people say all the time that Tino was such a clutch player, they've obviously never looked at his stats.

It's always beena toss up between the Cards and the Giants for my second favorite team, I went with the Giants this time. They are an easy team to root against though. Lofton, Kent, and Bonds are probably all a-holes, even if I think Bonds reputation is a little undeserved.

By the way, Pujols is a freak. That guy is so good and so young, it's unbelievable. He's going to be one of the best players in baseball for a long time. If the Cards are smart (which I know they are) they'll give him a 94 year contract before he gets to test the free agent waters, even if that isn't for 3 or 4 more years.

And you are right, it isn't so bad. If they can figure out a way to get another good starter (just like everyone else needs) they'll be right back there next year.

Ah, I'm going to miss the baseball season. Time for college basketball.

[JTG51]

I doubt there were too many people that picked an Angels/Giants World Series.

I picked Yankees/Cards.

[M2d]

at the start of the playoffs, I picked Dodgers/Yankees, but I'm a deluded Dodger fan. Bring back the O'Malleys.

[Clarkmeister]

Can't blame current ownership for not spending money. You just needed your damn pitchers to stop getting hurt all the time. You have a great young manager and a decent core. Just got to spend a little of the money better, jettison a few overpriced contracts, and get some luck with the injury bug and you'll be fine.

[M2d]

spending money is all well and good, but you kind of have to combine an open pocket book with a modicum of brains in order for that tactic to be effective. You sign an already old pitcher who throws arm damaging pitches to a multi year deal (Brown was tough when they got him, but you had to have seen these injuries coming based on his stuff). You sign damaged goods (Driefort), for a multi year deal based on upside? You have two of the most pure baseball talents in the game (sheff and mondesi), and you let both of them get away? You gotta find a way to make one or both of those guys work with you system.

I'm not blaming current management, but the previous regime (Kevin Malone) was a joke. he ran out mike sciocia. he bought all that damaged goods. bring back Campanis, for all I care, but destroy all evidence of the past few years' management.

[Uston]

You have two of the most pure baseball talents in the game (sheff and mondesi), and you let both of them get away? You gotta find a way to make one or both of those guys work with you system.

If you don't think that the Mondesi for Green trade was highway robbery, what in God's name did you expect from Shawn Green? Or did you mean to say Pedro Martinez instead of Mondesi?

[Uston]

I find the anti-Bonds sentiment to be hilarious. You've got athletes abusing their wives (too many to list), fathering children with scores of women (Shawn Kemp, most notably), trafficking drugs (Nate Newton and Sammy Smith), yet Barry Bonds is public enemy #1? Because he's rude to reporters? Give me a flippin' break.

[Clarkmeister]

Shef is a cancer. I firmly believe that teams are better off without guys like that. Then again, I'm a Cardinal fan and have believed that since the early 80's when Herzog traded off all the druggies and malcontents (Hernandez, Templeton, etc.)

As for Kevin Brown. While 7 years was questioned by everyone at the time, 5 years would have been very reasonable, with the same result. Its not like you shouldn't have tried to sign the guy. I would have loved to have gotten him at that time.

I think it all started with trading Piazza. Lo Duca has been a wonderful find, but damn, that wasn't too bright.

[JTG51]

That's the same argument I make to my friends.

If the worst thing Bonds ever does is tell a reporter he doesn't to talk, he's in pretty freakin good shape. He's one of the few professional athletes these days that you can say you NEVER hear about getting into troble off the field.

I also love the "he's so arrogant" thing. Big f'ing deal. So is almost every other professional athlete. I think to truly be great at anything you have to be supremely confident, bordering on arrogance.

[M2d]

I was speaking about pure talent. Gotta find a way to make mondesi work. Love green, and agree that he's a hell of a player, but he has nowhere near the tools that Raul has (had). the proverbial million dollar body with a five cent head.

[M2d]

with the number of innings that Brown tends to eat up when he's healthy and the kind of hard bendy stuff (sliders, sinkers) that he throws, I was sure that seven years was a mistake when they signed him. I would have figured three would have been the most they should have given him.
Agree with the Piazza fiasco. regardless of what you think of the guy, he was a tie to the old regime that, I guess, Fox couldn't put up with. Not exactly akin to the curse of the Bambino, but a pretty sickening indicator for us dodger fans.

[M2d]

The other day, on the San Francisco radio, I heard a talk show host say that Bonds is, arguably, the greatest hitter of all time. (I'm not arguing this point here)
a caller came on and stated that Willie Mays was by far the better hitter. His rationale: he had a better arm and better range in the outfield!!
what kind of crap argument is that? The SF fans go out of their way to dislike the guy, then get pissed when he doesn't talk to the press.

[Clarkmeister]

I'd take Green over Mondesi in a heartbeat. I don't know that either is worth their 12mm salary, however.

[andyfox]

Tino seems to be a good guy and was an OK player in his prime, but that's all. Surrounded by guys who were very goods players (O'Neill, Williams, Jeter in particular), he drove in runs by virtue of getting a lot of at bats (doesn't walk as much as he should given his home run totals). Giambi, on the other hand, has probably been the best hitter in the league for the last 3 years.

The playoffs are something of a crap shoot, which is what made the Yankees' record since 1996 so remarkable. Especially in the best 3 out of 5 series, one pitcher has an off-series or game (Glavine, for example, or Randy Johnson this year) and you're in trouble. When all of the pitchers have an off-game, as did the Yankees' starters this year, you're gone.

Can anyone explain to me why Tony L. let his pitcher hit with one out in the 9th inning tied 1-1? Can anyone explain to me why he walked Barry with nobody on base and two out in a tie game? Can anyone explain to me why he let Morris put two men on base and then brought in an inferior pitcher to pitch to the next guy?

[andyfox]

I don't know if you have to be arrogant, but a lot of people who reached the top of their profession sure were--Frank Lloyd Wright, Ted Williams, and Franklin Roosevelt comd to mind as three examples from three separate fields of endeavor.

I would say arrogance is not a prerequisite, but rather that for those who are arrogant, their arrogance may well hve been a prerequisite for their own success.

[Clarkmeister]

I agree about the playoffs being a crapshoot. I've looooong thought the World Series should be 9 games like it was in the early 1900's. And no playoff series should be a mere 5 games after a gruelling 162 game season. Simply not right. It's still only 8 teams making the postseason, give them all a shot.

Larussa really managed a poor series. The overriding htem is "what's the point of having 12 freaking pitchers if you aren't going to use any of them?"

Game 1, he went with Morris way too long, particularly not pinch hitting in the 3rd for himwith a runner on, then letting him give up a HR in the 4th and having to pull him anyways.

Game 2 sending Drew home was a horrible mistake. Even a mediocre throw is going to get him there a huge % of the time.

Game 3 we got very lucky to win. Horrific defense and many blown opportunities to score more than we did.

Game 4 was Tony's most mismanaged game by far, IMO. Not keeping Benes in is certainly questionable. Having White pitch to Snow. Leaving White in for a season high # of pitches and letting him pitch to a hitter twice. Not sending Vina. If he sends Vina (and it would have been very close) and he is out, you still get Edmonds at 2nd with Albert at the plate.

Game 5 while I think pinch hitting for Morris is reasonable, with only 90 pitches thrown, I didn't mind leaving him in. I do think that he should have had pitchers ready warming up. I also question Matheny's pitch calling since all of their hits were on fastballs up, they couldn't tough Morris' hook.

But the reason I am not calling for LaRussa's head like many Cardinal fans is simply this. If we hit something other than 2 of 27 RISP in the last 2 games, we aren't having this discussion, regardless of what Tony does. In the end, the hitters didn't hit, despite ample opportunities (we left a man on 3rd base in 7 of the 9 innings in game 4).

At some point, you simply say "we choked, they didn't" and move on.

[andyfox]

Good responses. I agree with your bottom line assessment: the team that played better won. That's what Torre said: yeah, it's a 3 out of 5, yeah our pitchers sucked, but bottom line is the team that plays better usually wins, and the team that played better beat us.

Angels seem to be on an unstoppable roll, but I remember in 1996, the Brave, after being down to the Cards (sorry to bring this up) 3 games to 1, outscored them in the next three games, and then the Yankees in the first two games of the World Series, by something like 60-5; they looked unstoppable too, and then lost 4 in a row.

Probably good for baseball too, to have either a team that's never won the World Series or a team that hasn't won in over 40 years win it this year. Bonds is clearly the most electrifying player in the game, so it should be fun.

[JTG51]

You put it better that I did Andy. I think you said what I meant to say. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif