Jeremy Schaap vs Bobby Fischer

[KidParty]

For anyone who saw the clip of the Bobby Fischer press conferance the other day on SportsCenter, I have to say that Jeremy Schaap has all of my respect on how he handled the situation...Bobby Fischer on the other hand has zero respect from me. All he did cement the fact with the entire world that he is an arrogant INSANE man.

[partygirluk]

Why were Iceland so keen to take him?

[sumdumguy]

I think Iceland's chess masters per capita is very high. Chess is big in Iceland. And Fischer played a big role in chess popularity in Iceland.

[Voltron87]

I think he beat some Russian guy in a face off that was held in Iceland. And I don't think there are many Jews in Iceland.

[ClaytonN]

You guys are both right.

Chess in Iceland is HUGE

Fischer beat Karpov in a "Cold war battle" in Iceland that made Fischer the first and only world chess champion from America.

[Somekid]

Fischer beat Boris Spassky.

[Michael Emery]

Insane, yes. But he still has my respect as he has achieved a higher mastery of chess than possibly anyone. If you know anything about Bobby Fischer you would have to admit he is one insane genius. With a IQ of 180 and the ability to remember every chess match he ever played I often wonder what kind of poker player he would have made. My guess is he could EASILY surpass every hold'em player (limit or no limit) on this forum with two years of study and experience. Insane or not he is one of the most freakishly talented individuals we will see in our lifetime.

Mike Emery

[Andy B]

The famous match in 1972 was against Boris Spassky, not Karpov.

[ClaytonN]

Whooooops

My bad. Brain fart.

[Masquerade]

[ QUOTE ]
My guess is he could EASILY surpass every hold'em player (limit or no limit) on this forum with two years of study and experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unlikely. Chess is a game of complete information. One criticism of Fischer was that he always played the same way regardless of the opponent. No-limit is all about putting yourself in the other guy's shoes. It's this sort of reasoning which autistics are incapable of and Fischer exhibits many characteristics of Asperger's syndrome.

Do you think Stuey Ungar - whose ability at cards you must put on a par with Fischer's at chess - couldve become a grandmaster in a couple of years?

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My guess is he could EASILY surpass every hold'em player (limit or no limit) on this forum with two years of study and experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unlikely. Chess is a game of complete information. One criticism of Fischer was that he always played the same way regardless of the opponent. No-limit is all about putting yourself in the other guy's shoes. It's this sort of reasoning which autistics are incapable of and Fischer exhibits many characteristics of Asperger's syndrome.

Do you think Stuey Ungar - whose ability at cards you must put on a par with Fischer's at chess - couldve become a grandmaster in a couple of years?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good Post.

The only chess I can stand to play is speed chess. It adds the varible of time, anticipation, pyschology and all of the things missing in a normal, purely mathmatical game.

[kenberman]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think Stuey Ungar - whose ability at cards you must put on a par with Fischer's at chess - couldve become a grandmaster in a couple of years?

[/ QUOTE ]

Stu Ungar lost more at NL than he won. yes he won tourneys, but he also lot a lot of cash in ring games. Ray Zee posted this info a while back.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
One criticism of Fischer was that he always played the same way regardless of the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't dispute whether Fischer would be good at poker or not for whatever reason...or whether he is partly autistic or has ausberger's....but I DO believe he played differently against different opponents.

For example, he played P-Q4 in his 1972 match vs. Spassky....a huge pyschological ploy since he previously had exclusively played K4.


chess is extremely popular in iceland.

i think i read of an international tourney from a couple decades ago where a native icelander was playing for the championship and it was the highest rated TV program in the history of iceland. something like 90-percent of all TV sets were tuned to that match.
presumably, the only other station was showing a re-run of Happy Days (all of that is true to the best of my recollection,..except for the happy days bit which was a joke of course).


didn't see the jeremy schaap piece....but i think there is little doubt that Fischer is fairly messed up in the head.

[youtalkfunny]

I don't watch SportsCenter. What happened between Schaap and Fischer?

(When I did watch SC, I used think the younger Schaap was very much a journalistic lightweight.)

[Michael Emery]

[ QUOTE ]
One criticism of Fischer was that he always played the same way regardless of the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally true. Fischer's opponents would train for years to play him knowing exactly how he would play, and they still got slaughtered. He always played in this same fashion because he found it most effective. But to think hes a savant only capable of playing in that fashion is wrong.

Fischer is the best "random chess" player in the world. He has been a huge supporter of this game and spreading its popularity. For those that dont know, random chess is where pieces are blindly drawn to start out in diffrent starting positions. For example the Queen might be where the Knight is in a regular game, the Rook where a pawn should be, etc. Fischer has been a huge supporter of this game because he says it cripples players who only know how to play chess "by the book". Its still regular chess, but much more difficult in that your forced to alter your game according to the draw.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think Stuey Ungar - whose ability at cards you must put on a par with Fischer's at chess - couldve become a grandmaster in a couple of years?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I wouldnt doubt it at all. Stuey was well known for being a genius with a photographic memory. One of Fischer's biggest advantages is that he could remember EVERY chess match he ever played. I dont think Stuey was nearly as smart as Fischer (Fischer has one of the highest IQ's ever at 180) but I still think Stuey could use his raw talent to achieve grandmaster status in a few years if he desired.

Now tell me why someone would dare to think that a person who is known as being the best at one of the hardest skill games in the world (Fischer only admitted the japanese game "GO" was harder") wouldnt be able to surpass everyone on these forums? I doubt we have anyone here with near a 180 IQ, that can recall every hand of poker they played, and with one of the most organized minds ever. Most great minds dont venture into poker. But if they did, I believe the "big game" would feature a diffrent lineup of smarter and more talented players as a lot of the big names we know would be outclassed.

Mike Emery

[Skipbidder]

[ QUOTE ]
Fischer is the best "random chess" player in the world. He has been a huge supporter of this game and spreading its popularity. For those that dont know, random chess is where pieces are blindly drawn to start out in diffrent starting positions. For example the Queen might be where the Knight is in a regular game, the Rook where a pawn should be, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe that only the back rows are randomized. He also liked the idea of simply switching the position of the knights and bishops to start the game. This would effectively cause all opening theory to be trashed as well.

[Shaun]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One criticism of Fischer was that he always played the same way regardless of the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally true. Fischer's opponents would train for years to play him knowing exactly how he would play, and they still got slaughtered. He always played in this same fashion because he found it most effective. But to think hes a savant only capable of playing in that fashion is wrong.

Fischer is the best "random chess" player in the world. He has been a huge supporter of this game and spreading its popularity. For those that dont know, random chess is where pieces are blindly drawn to start out in diffrent starting positions. For example the Queen might be where the Knight is in a regular game, the Rook where a pawn should be, etc. Fischer has been a huge supporter of this game because he says it cripples players who only know how to play chess "by the book". Its still regular chess, but much more difficult in that your forced to alter your game according to the draw.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think Stuey Ungar - whose ability at cards you must put on a par with Fischer's at chess - couldve become a grandmaster in a couple of years?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I wouldnt doubt it at all. Stuey was well known for being a genius with a photographic memory. One of Fischer's biggest advantages is that he could remember EVERY chess match he ever played. I dont think Stuey was nearly as smart as Fischer (Fischer has one of the highest IQ's ever at 180) but I still think Stuey could use his raw talent to achieve grandmaster status in a few years if he desired.

Now tell me why someone would dare to think that a person who is known as being the best at one of the hardest skill games in the world (Fischer only admitted the japanese game "GO" was harder") wouldnt be able to surpass everyone on these forums? I doubt we have anyone here with near a 180 IQ, that can recall every hand of poker they played, and with one of the most organized minds ever. Most great minds dont venture into poker. But if they did, I believe the "big game" would feature a diffrent lineup of smarter and more talented players as a lot of the big names we know would be outclassed.

Mike Emery

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker and chess are completely different. One thing that makes a great poker player is the ability to empathize with your opponent, and to do that, you have to have some degree of people skills. Bobby Fischer has none.

He is smart and that is an immediate boost to be sure, but his savant-like intelligence isn't neccessarily the best tool for poker success. Chess is just a totally different animal than poker. Chess is a complicated game in itself, whereas poker is a simple game in which the complications arise individually with each opponent, one's image, how one is currently running, etc.

I'm not sure an egomaniac like Bobby Fishcer would be very good at recognizing what other players were thinking, etc. Secondly, while I'm not sure if many of the best poker players (or people in general) have IQ's approaching 180, the best poker players in the world are pretty much all highly intelligent.

Intelliegnce alone is nice, but I wonder how Fischer would react to the uncontrollable variance of poker? I think the guy's ego would limit him.

[LargeCents]

[ QUOTE ]
For anyone who saw the clip of the Bobby Fischer press conferance the other day on SportsCenter, I have to say that Jeremy Schaap has all of my respect on how he handled the situation...Bobby Fischer on the other hand has zero respect from me. All he did cement the fact with the entire world that he is an arrogant INSANE man.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw the tail end of the interview. I wish I could see it again, to digest exactly how everything was said.

I've been keeping up with the Fischer "soap opera" since I started playing chess 15 years ago. Fischer is a unique personality, molded by the harsh conflict of the cold war during his generation. He seems to have gotten himself into an impossible situation, long ago, professionally in chess, then socially, and eventually politically. It was always him against the world in chess, and now it is his life in general.

Jeremy Schapp is a punk, looking to pick a fight, similar to Jeremy Schapp's interview with Bobby Knight a few years ago. I don't know why some of these two-bit reporters do this, I guess it's just part of their game, trying to make a name for themself.

In the interview, Fischer resembled a broken man, to me. He semi-rehashed the same stories he's been telling for the last 15 years. How his property in the U.S. was stolen after the U.S. sanctions against him were invoked, and how he blames the jews for the fact that his life has become a ruin. It's bad enough that he's a raving anti-semite, but he seems to make it a centerpiece to his every thought, action and word. I know I'm alone in wishing that we as a society would help such a genius be rehabilitated, rather than parading him around as the lunatic that he has become. I guess jew hating really is the worst thing a man can do, even worse than child sodomizing priests and pop stars, apparently.

I wish Bobby the best, and a life of peace in Iceland.

[ToneLoc]

Fischer deserves respect for what he did/created in chess. His political comments justify giving BF no respect as a person...

With regards to the chess/poker battle:
I know many chess players who have easily made the swithc from chess to poker. I don't know any example of the contrary.
I'd say it is much easier to become a profitable poker player that even a mid-level (say FIDE rated) chess player.

[youngndumb]

Basically Fischer asked him if his father was dick schapp and when told that he was, Fischer went off on how he was a backstabber like all the rest of the Jews. I guess Dick had befriended him and then wrote something non-flattering about him and this made Bobby not too happy. Jeremy was very upset (his deceased father getting called a backstabbing jew) and before leaving made a comment to Fischer about how insane he was.

[youtalkfunny]

Thanks, YnD.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
For anyone who saw the clip of the Bobby Fischer press conferance the other day on SportsCenter, I have to say that Jeremy Schaap has all of my respect on how he handled the situation...Bobby Fischer on the other hand has zero respect from me. All he did cement the fact with the entire world that he is an arrogant INSANE man.

[/ QUOTE ]
Any chance of a link to this video?

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]

I wish Bobby the best, and a life of peace in Iceland.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have an extradition treaty with Iceland. I look forward to his life of incarcaration in the U.S. penal system.

[jesusarenque]

Jeremy Schaap is a total douchebag. Of course, so is Bobby Fischer.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
For anyone who saw the clip of the Bobby Fischer press conferance the other day on SportsCenter, I have to say that Jeremy Schaap has all of my respect on how he handled the situation...Bobby Fischer on the other hand has zero respect from me. All he did cement the fact with the entire world that he is an arrogant INSANE man.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw the tail end of the interview. I wish I could see it again, to digest exactly how everything was said.

I've been keeping up with the Fischer "soap opera" since I started playing chess 15 years ago. Fischer is a unique personality, molded by the harsh conflict of the cold war during his generation. He seems to have gotten himself into an impossible situation, long ago, professionally in chess, then socially, and eventually politically. It was always him against the world in chess, and now it is his life in general.

Jeremy Schapp is a punk, looking to pick a fight, similar to Jeremy Schapp's interview with Bobby Knight a few years ago. I don't know why some of these two-bit reporters do this, I guess it's just part of their game, trying to make a name for themself.

In the interview, Fischer resembled a broken man, to me. He semi-rehashed the same stories he's been telling for the last 15 years. How his property in the U.S. was stolen after the U.S. sanctions against him were invoked, and how he blames the jews for the fact that his life has become a ruin. It's bad enough that he's a raving anti-semite, but he seems to make it a centerpiece to his every thought, action and word. I know I'm alone in wishing that we as a society would help such a genius be rehabilitated, rather than parading him around as the lunatic that he has become. I guess jew hating really is the worst thing a man can do, even worse than child sodomizing priests and pop stars, apparently.

I wish Bobby the best, and a life of peace in Iceland.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeremy Schaap was part of a perfectly reasonable Q&amp;A session with Fischer. I believe the confrontation when Fishcer asked Schaap if he was Jewish. Schaap responded that yes he was, and that Fischer had known his father. They get to talking about Dick Schaap taking Fischer to Knicks games and whatnot. Then, Fischer says something to the effect of, "And then, like a typical Jew pig, he goes on to write those awful things about me." (I know typical Jewish pig was used). Anyway, he's referring to Dick Schaap saying "There isn't a sane bone in his body."

Fischer talked about getting his name out of the Encyclopedia Judiaca, to which Schaap asked if his mother was Jewish. Then the real fun starts. Fischer goes crazy. Schaap interupts the rant to say, "I don't believe we've seen anything today to not support my father's pronouncement." Fischer continues on with his typical anti-semetism. After a little more Schaap looked very steadily at him, then silently turned and walked out of the group of reporters.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My guess is [Boby Fischer] could EASILY surpass every hold'em player (limit or no limit) on this forum with two years of study and experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unlikely. Chess is a game of complete information. One criticism of Fischer was that he always played the same way regardless of the opponent. No-limit is all about putting yourself in the other guy's shoes.

Do you think Stuey Ungar - whose ability at cards you must put on a par with Fischer's at chess - couldve become a grandmaster in a couple of years?

[/ QUOTE ]

Being good in chess does not necessarily mean that you are good in any other endeavor in life.

I trust there's no need to belabor this point.

[LargeCents]

[ QUOTE ]
His political comments justify giving BF no respect as a person...


[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's important to seperate Bobby's actions from his humanity. His raving hatred towards jews or anyone else should certainly be condemned. IMO, it's a symptom of whatever mental instability that is plauging him. As a person, he deserves respect just like every other living breathing person.

[ QUOTE ]
I look forward to his life of incarcaration in the U.S. penal system.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[ QUOTE ]
Jeremy Schaap was part of a perfectly reasonable Q&amp;A session with Fischer.

[/ QUOTE ]

That Jeremy Schaap did the interview at all was disappointing. If he had any integrity at all he'd have never agreed to open these old wounds. If Jeremy Schapp had some unsettled business with Fischer, it could have been a more private venue. Even more, Jeremy Schapp was pressing those buttons that just make Fischer go off, such as asking about Bobby's mother. If you've been following the Fischer saga, you know that Jeremy Schapp was playing wiffleball with a senile old man.

[ QUOTE ]
"There isn't a sane bone in his body."

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there's any debate here. Maybe Schapp was just trying to vindicate his father somehow? The logic completely eludes me. Again, Jeremey Schapp's career seems to be one step above prison porn, so maybe he's actually this desperate for an interviewing gig.

Finally, a joke.
[ QUOTE ]
[Boby Fischer] could EASILY surpass every hold'em player (limit or no limit) on this forum with two years of study and experience.


[/ QUOTE ]
Is this before or after he goes on an insane rant about how the jews rigged the cards against him? He'd make Phil Helmuth look like a pussycat.

[BeerGolfPoker]

[ QUOTE ]
One criticism of Fischer was that he always played the same way regardless of the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not an avid chess player, but from what I've read I was under the impression that what made Fischer so great was his creativity - as opposed to the more rigid (though still extremely effective) style of the Russians.

[TheNoodleMan]

While Fischer may have been totally out of bounds, it was Jeremy Schaap that was the big loser in that exchange. Everyone already knew that Fischer was out to lunch, there was no need for Schaap to get into that exchange with him.
The biggest problem that Jeremy Schaap has is getting people to take him seriously as a journalist. The fact that he works for the same network that his father did makes people naturally skeptical of him. In his tenure on ESPN Jeremy has done nothing to make viewers think of him as anything other than just Dick Schaap's son, and his exchange with Fischer was further evidence that he does not stand on his own two feet as a journalist.
What Jeremy Schaap did is a cardinal sin of journalism, he injected himself into the story. He took Fischer's bait and responded like a good son, but a bad journalist. The moment he began to defend his father, he abandoned any claim to journalistic integrity. A journalist's job is to report the story, not become the story. Schaap did the latter.

[LargeCents]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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One criticism of Fischer was that he always played the same way regardless of the opponent.


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I'm not an avid chess player, but from what I've read I was under the impression that what made Fischer so great was his creativity - as opposed to the more rigid (though still extremely effective) style of the Russians.



[/ QUOTE ]

The easiest way to invision Fischer for the non-chessplayer is illustrated in the movie "Rainman", when the box of toothpicks falls on the floor and the kook immediately declares exactly how many toothpicks are in the pile. It doesn't really matter who spilled the box of toothpicks, or who arranges the pawns and pieces on the chessboard. Fischer could find the answer (winning combination) with mutant accuracy and ease that will never been seen again.

[boondoggle]

There was one before Fischer -- Jose Capablanca. He was the greatest chess player ever based on pure talent. The greatest player who was never champion was Paul Keres. Fischer was good but not the greatest. Capa is deserving of that title.

cheers
Boon

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]

I think he beat some Russian guy in a face off that was held in Iceland.

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasn't just "some Russian guy." It was former world champion Boris Spassky. There is now a book about that match titled "Bobby Fischer Goes to War : How the Soviets Lost the Most Extraordinary Chess Match of All Time." Absolutely fascinating read.

[checkmate36]

Capablanca was the best natural chess player to have ever lived. He never took a lesson and never read a book on the game. At a young age he would observe his fathers play and even comment when wrong moves were made. At age 12 he won the Cuban championship (Capablanca-Corzo 1901 11th game) by sacrificing his Queen in order to set up a favourable endgame. This concept was never seen before and easily surpasses any accomplishment by other prodigies such as Morphy, Reshevsky and yes Fischer.

Todays players are much better than Fischer at his peak due to a laboratory approach to learning complete with multiple coaches for each phase of the game. Computers and databases make theory easier to stay on top of. One new move in a variation could lead to disaster for an unprepared GM in todays game.

[jason_t]

The book "Capablanaca's Best Chess Endings" by Irving Chernev contains that beautiful endgame, among others. Truly wonderful book devoted to a brilliant player. Very cheap, around $10.

[LargeCents]

[ QUOTE ]
There was one before Fischer -- Jose Capablanca. He was the greatest chess player ever based on pure talent. The greatest player who was never champion was Paul Keres. Fischer was good but not the greatest. Capa is deserving of that title.

cheers
Boon



[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, Boon, that Capa was maybe the greatest natural talent. I think Capa v.s. Fischer would be my all time wish, if I could die, go to heaven and see some incredible chess. It would be like watching Jordan's Bulls against the Celtics of the 1960's, or today's Patriots against Lombardi's Packers.

I think the thing about Fischer v.s. the Russians, though, is that it transcended chess. It was the middle of the cold war, and the U.S. hated Russia. Chess was HUGE in Russia, with probably 90 of the top 100 players being from the Soviet Union at the time. The Soviets held the title continuously since World War II. Fischer didn't just beat Spassky. Fischer beat the entire Soviet chess school, and an entire chess culture. You could almost say that Fischer struck the first crack into the wall of communism, showing that the U.S. can compete, and beat the Soviets at anything they choose. I wasn't alive when Fischer did his magic, but I imagine that it was a touchstone of national pride for most Americans at the time, similar to "The Miracle On Ice" at Lake Placid in 1980.

[tolbiny]

"I'd say it is much easier to become a profitable poker player that even a mid-level (say FIDE rated) chess player."

[censored] yeah, i doubt that i ever would have cracked the 1500 (maybe not even the 1450) range when my friend and i were struggling against each other/discussig/reading about chess all summer (we both had a cursory knowledge going in). I read HPFAPP and have been + ever since.

[$DEADSEXE$]

This is totally off topic but since you guys know chess..I was doing a commercial awhile back and to guys played chess the whole time. They were talking and I guess one of them was pretty good awhile back and did the whole competition thing...He said that Vin Diesel of all people was really good at chess...ranked or something. He said he got destroyed by him in every game that they played.
He could have been making it up for all I know but he seemed very serious. The fact that of all the actors it was Vin Diesel just took me by surprise. Doubt in the grand scheme of things he was all that good but they seemed to have a high opinion of him chess wise lol.

[Cyrus]

There have been too many inaccurate claims about chess and particularly Bobby Fischer in this thread. Although not an expeert in either, I feel like challenging some of those statements and see what responses I get.

-- Fischer is not only a good player at random chess, he has practically re-invented the concept, through his support and practice! (For more on chess variants, run a websearch.)

-- Fischer might indeed have had (psycholigical) reasons to avoid playing the match with Karpov in 1975, stemming from fear of losing his life's ultimate/only objective, the world chess crown. But his demands about the terms of the match were far from being "unreasonable" or plain crazy, as some people, including chess experts and GMs, still claim. In fact, Fischer's claims have subsequently been incorporated into the rules of world championship matches, eg the number of draws not counting, the challenger needing half a point more to win the match, etc. Fischer was prescient.

-- Fischer was not "playing the same openings" or "playing the same way". This is absurd. He was indeed a practitioner of specific lines over others but that's because he believed more in their soundness. The man was absolutely set on his chess principles. As for 1. e4, one of his chess principles was that he always played to win, especially so with White. The people who accuse Fischer of monotony in his chess should study his life's games more.

-- Incidentally, Fischer was totally objective in his analysis. (By this, I mean that he was totally honest. If he stated that he believed something about chess, in general or specifically, he did indeed believe it. He was not just saying he believed it on account of some hidden agenda.) There has been no GM who wrote a book about his own games that was as objective, ie harsh, about himself before Fischer's "My 60 Memorable Games". (Which is a masterpiece on its own right, btw.)

-- About the World Champion's chess abilities. Fischer was both a prodigy (a natural talent à la Capablance) AND the most studious and hard-working of all chess champions, ever. (Capa, for example, was famously avoiding to study the game as much as he should.)

-- In more detail:
Firstly, Bobby Fischer was an extremely diligent and able analyzer. In fact, he rightly trusted no one but himself to help him analyze adjourned positions in that pre-computer era.
Secondly, Fischer learned Russian and was able to follow, directly "from the source", any developments in chess theory.
Thirdly, Fischer did not possess any "photographic memory" greater than the vast majority of chess world-class masters; he simply knew more! That's because he was totally dedicated to acquiring the maximum possible of chess knowledge, a trait approximated by the studious Kasparov.
Fourthly, Fischer possessed extraordinary abilities of strategic understanding of positions, deep calculation of variations and quickness of thought (he rarely got into time trouble).

-- Fischer cared about money, he was not stupid. In fact, he alone ushered in the era of the chess professional. Before Fischer's time, practically only state-subsidized "chess pros" could afford the job. (He was also instrumental in the vast improvement of the playing conditions in chess matches and tournaments. Surely you remember the press having a field day with "primadona Fischer's demands" about lighting, silence in the hall, etc? Well, he was totally correct in all of them. And all the organisers slowly came around to adopting those conditions, to the benefit of chess players, especially the pros.)

-- But Fischer's principles were above money. For example, he refused to participate in simultaneous-play exhibitions, even though he could clean up, especially after getting the Crown, because he considered them a "travesty of chess". He also did not play blind folded chess, for the same reason. Also, he refused to endorse books, products, etc, because he found them all unworthy of endorsement! Imagine if all pro athletestreated product endorsement that way!..

-- Fischer is extremely intelligent according to the standard way of measuring intelligence. His knowledge of things beyond chess is grossly under-rated, as is his sense of humor. (See the American GM Yasser Seirawan's book "No regrets" for details.) No doubt, that intelligence played a huge part in his chess progress. However, as I believe British GM John Nunn has remarked, "being competent in chess means that you can be competent in chess". Implying that chess ability is rarely indicative of other abilities in life.

-- Fischer used to protests a lot about Soviet conspiracies to stop him from reaching Number One. He was labeled a world class whiner for it. Turns out he was totally correct! The book "Russians vs Fischer", written by Russians and published in Russia, quoting material from the Soviet archives hitherto unavailable to the West, confirms as much.

-- Fischer's achievement lies not just in achieving what no American could ever dream of achieving before him. (Now, with so many Russian immigrants and naturalised American citizens, everything is possible...) It lies in how he got the Crown! He becamse champion via the most convincing and devastating route imaginable! He crushed the extremely strong Soviet GM Taimanov (he, of the eponymous Sicilian variation fame, among his many contributions) by the unheard of before score of 6-0! That's six sonsecutive wins []iwithout any draws![/i]. And then he did it again, against the even stronger Danish GM Larsen, crushing him 6-0 too! Next, he annihilated the "master of defensive play" the Soviet ex-World Champion Petrosian -- who managed to at least win one game and draw some, before going down 5-1! Incidentally, the chess abilities of all those players took a nose dive after playing with the man. The Final Match, against World Champion Spassky, included a game, the 2nd one, that Fischer forfeited and lost because, once again, he would not violate his unshakeable principles.

In sum, the world of chess owes a world of gratitude to Robert James Fischer, from the lowly amateur to the highest paid professional. He attracted millions of new players to the game; he opened up new avenues of thinking into and about chess; he improved the conditiond under which serious games are played; he contributed to theory; and, most of all, he provided a shining example of chess love -- both good and bad. Good, for what can be achieved, and Bad for the price paid forsuch an achievement.

Fischer is now a paranoid and an anti-Semite. It's a tragedy -- but he has always been a sociopath because of his single-minded obsession with the love of his life. His anti-semitimism is as relevant as blaming the color green for evetything.

--Cyrus

[LargeCents]

Nice Fischer writeup! Very accurate.

[ QUOTE ]
see what responses I get.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you've said it all.

[LargeCents]

[ QUOTE ]
He said that Vin Diesel of all people was really good at chess...ranked or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never heard anything about Vin Diesel being good at chess, but I did a little research, finding Vin Diesel was born as Mark Vincent in NYC. I did an USCF search and there is no games record for Vin Diesel or Mark Vincent. So, I seriously doubt that Vin Diesel has any actual tournament experience. Although he very well may be adept at "street chess", which may be the case. But I don't really see it in him, at least beyond an intermediate level.

It seems like any time a celebrity even glances in the direction of a chess board it's a big deal. I can't count the number of times I've heard about Lennox Lewis being the "chess playing Boxing champion". But, he's really only USCF 1800, which is ok, but he's no force in the chess world besides being equivalent to any mediocre player in any average chess club. Similarly for any other celebrity who is every mentioned in the same breath with chess. I'm glad for the chess publicity, but Dan Harrington could probably beat any of these "chess celebrities" blindfolded.

[dalewalk]

So having a high I.Q. and therefore enabled to play chess like nobody else demands respect? That's like saying that someone born rich deserves more respect simply because of his wealth. For someone to achieve most peoples' respect, they first need to show dignity and respect for others. You and your insane idol obviously and thankfully are from the shallow minority of the world. Who else has earned your respect? Joseph Stalin? Adolph Hitler? Mike Tyson another talented gamesman?
Your priorities seriously need some adjusting.

[slickpoppa]

Your first post is a response to a thread that died two weeks ago /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[dalewalk]

What kind of idiot are you? How do you compare world-class chess playing to poker played by a bunch of slobs who have done nothing more than hang around gambling arenas their whole miserable lives? Where do you people crawl from?

[chadman03]

i just watched sunday sportscenter, and if you catch it tomorrow you can see a piece by schaap telling the whole story behind him doing this story on bobby fischer. call it closure, or something else, but i dont think what he did was wrong. and i think he handled himself fine.

fischer calls him a jewish snake because he said some bad words about him.......i dont know how anyone, who watches him and listens to what comes out of his mouch, who cant agree with dick shaap.

[EricOF]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My guess is he could EASILY surpass every hold'em player (limit or no limit) on this forum with two years of study and experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unlikely. Chess is a game of complete information. One criticism of Fischer was that he always played the same way regardless of the opponent. No-limit is all about putting yourself in the other guy's shoes. It's this sort of reasoning which autistics are incapable of and Fischer exhibits many characteristics of Asperger's syndrome.

Do you think Stuey Ungar - whose ability at cards you must put on a par with Fischer's at chess - couldve become a grandmaster in a couple of years?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but no one becomes a GM in a couple of years. OTOH, becoming a world class poker player requires much less time and effort. Yes, that will seem insulting to those who've put in tons of effort into poker but, trust me, chess requires far more work to become truly great. This despite the fact that chess is a game of "complete information." How? To put it simply, having information and understanding information are two vastly different things. Perhaps no game makes this more clear than Chess (maybe Go). I have just as much information as the GM sitting accross from me but if I play that GM 1000 times in a row, I will get crushed 1000 straight times. No suckouts in chess.

I don't think Bobby would necessarily be a great poker player though. Chess relies heavily on spatial intelligence, which isn't seen at all in poker. I don't think the games call upon the same primary skill sets really.

[EricOF]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One criticism of Fischer was that he always played the same way regardless of the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not an avid chess player, but from what I've read I was under the impression that what made Fischer so great was his creativity - as opposed to the more rigid (though still extremely effective) style of the Russians.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, all great players are pretty creative. If you choose to consider chess an art, which is reasonable, everyone is at least attempting to create at the board.

I think what made him stand out was his precision and calculating ability. His style was fairly straightforward. His games don't foster chaos, but neither does he prefer to constrict. People have had a hard time categorizing his play. It was just devastatingly logical chess.

Someone mentioned the Soviet documents about Fischer that have been released. Among them was an analysis of Fischer's play in preparation for the 1972 match. I believe they classified Fischer's play as "classical" and stated that it was always obvious what his aims were in a game. Nevertheless, no one at the time could do much to prevent him from reaching them. His run of 20 straight WINS against GMs will never be duplicated. It's an almost ridiculous feat.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Fischer is the best "random chess" player in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]
didnt he come up with the game?youd think he would be the best at it?
i could be wrong about him coming up with it though

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
Your first post is a response to a thread that died two weeks ago /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

SportsCenter just ran a new piece, a Jeremy Schaap piece recounting the whole Schaap-Fischer ordeal all the way through his trip to Iceland to interview Fischer, and the possibility of Fischer being prosecuted under Iceland's anti-hate speech law.

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
Jeremy Schapp is a punk, looking to pick a fight

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this 100%. Fischer's comments can not be excused... but Schaap knew what can of works he was opening when he started his question with "Hi, I am Jeremey Schaap."

His ambush journalism tactics are way old now. This is far from the first time this has happened: Fischer, Knight, Mike Price, Lance Armstrong a few weeks ago. And I am sure there are others I am forgetting.

Both are classless in my book. Fischer looks bad (and rightfully so) because he made some anti-semitic remarks... but at least he might have his ridiculous IQ to blame for his loss of sanity... Schaap is just a button-pushing camera hound.

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jeremy Schapp is a punk, looking to pick a fight

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this 100%. Fischer's comments can not be excused... but Schaap knew what can of works he was opening when he started his question with "Hi, I am Jeremey Schaap."

His ambush journalism tactics are way old now. This is far from the first time this has happened: Fischer, Knight, Mike Price, Lance Armstrong a few weeks ago. And I am sure there are others I am forgetting.

Both are classless in my book. Fischer looks bad (and rightfully so) because he made some anti-semitic remarks... but at least he might have his ridiculous IQ to blame for his loss of sanity... Schaap is just a button-pushing camera hound.

[/ QUOTE ]

In his ESPN piece this weekend, he says something like "I've been tracking Fischer's movements for the last decade..." WTF?

However, that's nothing compared to the radio comments Fischer made after 9/11.

[OrangeKing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fischer is the best "random chess" player in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]
didnt he come up with the game?youd think he would be the best at it?
i could be wrong about him coming up with it though

[/ QUOTE ]


He didn't come up with the game (at least, the basic idea had been around way before Fischer), he just brought it to the spotlight and promoted it, and got people to call it Fischer Random Chess.

Based on what is he the best player in the world at random chess, by the way? I must have missed the large volume of Random Chess games he's played over the last 20 years. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
However, that's nothing compared to the radio comments Fischer made after 9/11.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. That was some truly classless stuff. I think that the guy most likely *is* inane/delusional. But JS still gets no points for calling him out on it since it's kind of common knowledge. It's like trying to call out Mike Tyson on being a lunatic. We know Jeremy, we know.

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
While Fischer may have been totally out of bounds, it was Jeremy Schaap that was the big loser in that exchange. Everyone already knew that Fischer was out to lunch, there was no need for Schaap to get into that exchange with him.
The biggest problem that Jeremy Schaap has is getting people to take him seriously as a journalist. The fact that he works for the same network that his father did makes people naturally skeptical of him. In his tenure on ESPN Jeremy has done nothing to make viewers think of him as anything other than just Dick Schaap's son, and his exchange with Fischer was further evidence that he does not stand on his own two feet as a journalist.
What Jeremy Schaap did is a cardinal sin of journalism, he injected himself into the story. He took Fischer's bait and responded like a good son, but a bad journalist. The moment he began to defend his father, he abandoned any claim to journalistic integrity. A journalist's job is to report the story, not become the story. Schaap did the latter.


[/ QUOTE ]

i take it you've never heard of gonzo journalism or hunter s.

[ClassicBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While Fischer may have been totally out of bounds, it was Jeremy Schaap that was the big loser in that exchange. Everyone already knew that Fischer was out to lunch, there was no need for Schaap to get into that exchange with him.
The biggest problem that Jeremy Schaap has is getting people to take him seriously as a journalist. The fact that he works for the same network that his father did makes people naturally skeptical of him. In his tenure on ESPN Jeremy has done nothing to make viewers think of him as anything other than just Dick Schaap's son, and his exchange with Fischer was further evidence that he does not stand on his own two feet as a journalist.
What Jeremy Schaap did is a cardinal sin of journalism, he injected himself into the story. He took Fischer's bait and responded like a good son, but a bad journalist. The moment he began to defend his father, he abandoned any claim to journalistic integrity. A journalist's job is to report the story, not become the story. Schaap did the latter.


[/ QUOTE ]

i take it you've never heard of gonzo journalism or hunter s.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference between Jeremy Schaap and HST is that Schaap tries to pass himself off as a "legitimate" journalist, in which the cardinal sin is to not insert yourself into the story. HST invented a whole new form of journalism, which really wasn't so much journalism as it was autobiographical musings. And Hunter had the talent to do it and make it work. To try and compare what Schaap does to HST is a joke.

[fyodor]

[ QUOTE ]
i take it you've never heard of gonzo journalism or hunter s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Comparing Schaap to HST is like comparing Tang to Orange Juice

[Komodo]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
All he did cement the fact with the entire world that he is an arrogant INSANE man.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since when was this a secret?
But i still love him /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Komodo]

"He said that Vin Diesel of all people was really good at chess...ranked or something.

I never heard anything about Vin Diesel being good at chess, but I did a little research, finding Vin Diesel was born as Mark Vincent in NYC. I did an USCF search and there is no games record for Vin Diesel or Mark Vincent. So, I seriously doubt that Vin Diesel has any actual tournament experience. Although he very well may be adept at "street chess", which may be the case. But I don't really see it in him, at least beyond an intermediate level."

Dont know Vin Diesel or mark Vincent, but if you mean Mark Diesel, Its a guy who won the world junior championchip many years ago. He is a 2300 Elo FM or so today.

[J.A.Sucker]

Who cares about Bobby Fischer? He was once a pawn in the Cold War, and now he's just a miserable old sumbitch. Maybe he realizes how insignificant his life really was, and that the only reason that we cared about chess was because here was this all-American boy who could defeat the great Russian War Machine. I could see how that could make a man a little resentful.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
The difference between Jeremy Schaap and HST is that Schaap tries to pass himself off as a "legitimate" journalist, in which the cardinal sin is to not insert yourself into the story.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm really not a big fan of Jeremy Schaap at ALL. Although I do admit to despising him a bit less the past couple years.


Still....this was a feature-ish story where he DID intentionally insert himself into the picture because of the link between Bobby and his Dad.
This makes it legitimate imo.

He wasn't just 'inventing' some link between him and Fischer. There really was one via his father and it made for a VERY interesting story imo.



Calling out Bobby on 'not having done much to discredit the notiong that he insane' (or whatever he said) wasn't THAT bad imo.
Certainly Jeremy didn't know exactly how it would go down when he met Bobby face-to-face....but Bobby went out of his way to slam Jeremy's recently deceased father and it obviously rattled him and understandably so.

I don't think the 'jewish snake' comment would have stung Jeremy so much if his father was still alive.

If I'm interviewing someone and they come at me with insults about a recently deceased loved one I doubt I could remain as composed as Jeremy did.

[MEbenhoe]

Agree with you 100% Bob. I think Schaap gets a worse rep than he deserves. He's definitely not his father, but in the overall ranks of sports reporters he's not bad.

[ClassicBob]

This is my main problem with the story. When Fischer was flown to Iceland, and it was announced that there would be a news conference, someone from ESPN had to go cover it, obviously. Now, was it ESPN who chose to send Schaap, or did Schaap beg for the chance to do the story? Fischer had already said things about Dick Schaap that would be considered inflammatory. Anyone should know that sending Jeremy to Iceland to do the story would be a huge conflict of interest. So either Schaap screwed up, or ESPN did. The original press conference then became Schaap vs. Fischer, not about Fischer's return to Iceland, which was the real story. I found that offensive enough. Running a package on the spat a few weeks later just angered me even more. What's the point? How is that news?

[Komodo]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
Why were Iceland so keen to take him?

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, MR Fischer didnt deserve the treatment he got from the US government. No one should risk 10 years in prison for playing a chess match in Yugoslavia. Its ridiculous and a big joke to say the least. There is only one country that could happen in, except for some Pinochet regimes. He migth be odd, but he is not a criminal.

Secondly Fischer is loved by chess fans all over the world and would probably have been welcome almost anywhere, but it was Iceland who he put on the world map 1972, who put the time and energy to grant him a citizenship.
You can read more about this subject on www.chessbase.com (http://www.chessbase.com) who has covered it in depth

[willie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i take it you've never heard of gonzo journalism or hunter s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Comparing Schaap to HST is like comparing Tang to Orange Juice

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't even think it's that close. it's like milk to battery acid

what an AWFUL comparison.

[MicroBob]

Interestingly, the most recent showing of the Schaap vs. Fischer bit concluded with the anchor in the studio adding that Iceland is now considering whether to prosecute fischer under their Hate-speech law (or whatever it's called) for the comments he made at the Mar 25 press-conference.


If they have such laws (and issues) regarding hate-speech then I would think his comments on Phillipine radio regarding the 9/11 attacks (among other things he said) would have led Iceland to NOT accept him into their country.


But it might two different factions here.
One group of Fischer fanatics saying "Bring him here...Let's give him citizenship!!"
And another group that doesn't care for him too much that is ready to pounce at the chance to nail him for hate-speech.

[Sluss]

Jeremy Schaap is the ESPN "chess reporter." He was the comentator on the Deep Blue matches and every other chess event that has been on ESPN. So it would be a no-brainer to send him, even without the history between Fischer and his father.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
and every other chess event that has been on ESPN

[/ QUOTE ]


It was Maurice Ashley and some other guy (not Jeremy) in the mid to late 90's as I recall.
Not even sure if Jeremy was even on ESPN yet though.


The story was certainly not a 'conflict of interests' since it wasn't just a story about Fischer.
Jeremy WAS part of this story and that's what gave it added interest. In other words, it wasn't supposed to be objective. It was supposed to be an interesting feature-piece.

[Sluss]

[ QUOTE ]
It was Maurice Ashley and some other guy (not Jeremy) in the mid to late 90's as I recall.
Not even sure if Jeremy was even on ESPN yet though.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I meant since Dick got Jeremy a job at ESPN. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jeremy has always been a relatively weak journalist. Even his father (though defending him to the hilt) used to take veiled shots at him.

I'm just glad that he doesn't do the Sporting Life on ESPN Radio anymore. That would make you wonder how he ever got a job in sports broadcasting at KSUK in Fairlugen, Wyoming, let alone a national radio show.