Tipping a caddy

[judgesmails]

I am playing a course tomorrow morning that requires one caddy per group (referred to as a "forecaddie"). Why the "ie" ending anyway?

We have reserved a tee time for three. We will all be taking carts. This person will not be carrying any clubs. Just locating shots, raking bunkers, tending the pin, and giving general course directions and advice.

Greens fees at this course are normally $120, but they are running an Easter special for $50.

How much should our group tip this guy?

As a side note, I really have grown to hate all the tipping that has become associated with playing golf. I grew up playing a very nice muni course where all anyone expected - and all we got - was a good looking beer bitch who we would overtip in hopes of screwing her someday. Who needs all these rediculous services like bag drop, club cleaning, and eight or nine "assistant golf pros" licking your balls and expecting tips.

Anyway, I am playing this course and will have to tip this guy. How little can I get away with?

[slickpoppa]

at least 30 bucks a man

[slickpoppa]

your post is kind of funny considering your name

[judgesmails]

Yeah, I guess after you mention it... I am now reminded of that Caddyshack scene where Judge Smails tipped Noonan a couple of coins.

I am cheap, but not quite that cheap.

Could I just tell the forecaddie "You'll get nothing and like it"?

[peachy]

i tip about 40...but im huge on tipping...

[slickpoppa]

wow, thats a lot for a girl /images/graemlins/wink.gif. in my experience men almost always tipped better

[mcb]

I used to caddy and I could not stand cheap f&*^s. It made it even worse that I used to play on the power-bilt and meijer junior pga and was better than 99.9% of the people I had to slave for. $30 per person in the group sounds like a good amount.

[peachy]

ive always seen the opposite happen...but at a golf course its generally male...so i guess so. I just used to work for tips...so i tend to tip well when i can. But when i worked...men usually tipped me better...but im a girl

[judgesmails]

I think most of us have worked in a service industry at one time or another and have relied on tips for part or most of our income. I fully understand this as I too worked as a bartender in college.

This situation really bothers me. These golf courses overload their staffs with minimum wage employees who have dreams of playing golf professionally or who desire to be club pros someday.

They then foist the responsibility of compensating these poor souls on the customer, when most customers would prefer to not have these extra compulsory services such as club drop, club cleaning, and "forecaddie".

These cheap wage employees help reduce the workload of management significantly as many are college educated, hard working, and responsible. But the course passes their expense on to an often unsuspecting customer in hidden tipping charges that can amount to as much as $50 - 60 per round per player.

I go in knowing the game and still choose to play this course. But it does not mean I like all the conditions and hope they change someday. I really think in the big picture this situation harms the game of golf by driving up the price of golf an keeping otherwise interested players from getting the chance to learn and love the game.

[b0000000000m]

First--a forecaddie that doesn't carry putters? I caddied for two summers when I was in middle school, and forecaddied once in a while--usually only when the course had an "outing" schedule (a corporation or some other group rents out the course and non-members play). One of the main responsibilities of the forecaddie was to carry the putters. Do forecaddies not do this everywhere?

Second--whoa! Either you guys are very generous tippers (doubtful--no offense, but everything I have seen in OOT suggests an average to slightly-below-average tipping tendency), or standard tips have gone way up since I caddied. I worked at a pretty nice club in an affluent suburb, and caddies at nearby clubs seemed to get paid about the same as us (even the PGA course at the Westchester Country Club), so I'm doubting I worked at a particularly stingy club. Back in the day ('92-'93) we would get about $10 per person for forecaddying. That was what the club reccomended to the patrons, too. In today's dollars that's $13.15. So--I'm still unsure about what exactly happened.

[zaxx19]

Did you get a can of soup for making this post?

How can anyone learn to golf when one day costs so much??

[htc1278]

If the caddy was relying on just 1 person for a tip I would tip around $40-$50 but because there are 3 people tipping you can get away with $20/person. For the same 4 hour round the caddy will make an extra $10 or so. I used to caddy and carrying the clubs was never the hard part. Caddies get used to that pretty quickly. The hard part was finding the horrible tee shots when you forecaddie a hole where the sun is behind the golfers teeing off. I also find that when I am being given a huge discount on something I am more likely to tip generously because it is money I would have had to have spent if there wasn't a discount to begin with...

[b0000000000m]

[ QUOTE ]
The hard part was finding the horrible tee shots when you forecaddie a hole where the sun is behind the golfers teeing off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. The only time I was almost hit by a ball was in this exact set of circumstances.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to caddy and I could not stand cheap f&*^s.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The hard part was finding the horrible tee shots when you forecaddie a hole where the sun is behind the golfers teeing off.

[/ QUOTE ]

[edtost]

it depends on the level of service you get. if he's finding balls in the woods, giving advice about how to play holes, reading greens well, etc. i would say 25-30 a man. if he seems to be walking behind you a lot and standing around doing nothing when you get up to the greens, 20 is plenty.

note that my experience comes from a course where all compensation for the caddies was from tips - if this one pays them a salary also, the numbers can be reduced accordingly. however, they are also based on a course where rounds were often completed in < 4 hours, which is likely not the case at this public course.

in addition, forecaddies help make the round a lot faster and more pleasant, especially when most of the groups on the course are unfamiliar with its layout.

[Clarkmeister]

$10 a guy is fine for this situation. Maybe a little more if he is exceptional.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
your post is kind of funny considering your name

[/ QUOTE ]

Gambling is illegal at bushwoods and I never slice!

[trying2learn]

I forecaddied at Shadow Creek (Las Vegas' most exclusive course at one time), and my tips were OUTRAGEOUS. This isn't applicable to this situation, however now many of the local courses (higher end) have gone to having forecaddies go along to explain the course, read puts, wipe clubs, etc. I will tell you that this will be the most well spent money (assuming they do a good job) you will spend on your round. Whatever amount you decide.

[Clarkmeister]

Can you get me a tee time? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[trying2learn]

whoa! but it looks good on you though!

[trying2learn]

i moved over to casino hosting clark - so if you play (which i assume you do from time to time) - i can get you on just about any course you like.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
$10 a guy is fine for this situation. Maybe a little more if he is exceptional.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me? Do you think anyone would caddy if you make $30 for being out 4-5 hours in addition to the time that you have to wait for your group to go out? That could wrok out to less than minimum wage.

I caddied for 5 years, and as recently as last summer I got paid a minimum of $30 per man for forecaddying. It was at a very rich country club, but there is no way that the going rate could be less than 20-25. Pay at least $30 and stop being such a cheap mo'fo.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Pay at least $30 and stop being such a cheap mo'fo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but one guy forecaddying for the whole group doesn't deserve to make a $30/hr wage. That's ridiculous.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pay at least $30 and stop being such a cheap mo'fo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but one guy forecaddying for the whole group doesn't deserve to make a $30/hr wage. That's ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

People seem to be confusing caddying and forecaddying. Forecaddy does less work (doesn't carry the bags, for example) and gets tipped less.

[Ray Zee]

plus a caddy gets paid a set amount for doing the job he has contracted to do.

if he just does an average job that is his pay. a better job tip him accordingly. that is what tipping is. have we all lost sight of what it is.

[eric5148]

[ QUOTE ]
ive always seen the opposite happen...but at a golf course its generally male...so i guess so. I just used to work for tips...so i tend to tip well when i can. But when i worked...men usually tipped me better...but im a girl

[/ QUOTE ]

What about bribes?

I was a starter at a public course for a couple summers, I didn't get tips but I got about 3 or 4 bribes a week, ALWAYS from men. No woman ever tried to bribe me. What's up with that?

[edtost]

at most places i've been, there's no difference between'tip' and 'wage' - it makes things easier for the club to consider the caddies as independant contractors and just set a minimum 'tip' level so they don't have to pay them a salary.

[Evan]

If you suck at golf you should tip more. This is not a joke.

[sfer]

I caddied from 92-94 in HS and I would carry two bags, etc. etc. etc. I would get between $20-$30 per bag. So adjust and inflate and infer as necessary.

Doing this while routinely hungover and dehydrated in sweltering humidity has resulted my hatred of golf as an adult.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pay at least $30 and stop being such a cheap mo'fo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but one guy forecaddying for the whole group doesn't deserve to make a $30/hr wage. That's ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

People seem to be confusing caddying and forecaddying. Forecaddy does less work (doesn't carry the bags, for example) and gets tipped less.

[/ QUOTE ]

For actually carrying a bag i would get paid 50-60

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pay at least $30 and stop being such a cheap mo'fo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but one guy forecaddying for the whole group doesn't deserve to make a $30/hr wage. That's ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

People seem to be confusing caddying and forecaddying. Forecaddy does less work (doesn't carry the bags, for example) and gets tipped less.

[/ QUOTE ]

For actually carrying a bag i would get paid 50-60

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, so you want more than twice the money for much less work. No way.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
Right, so you want more than twice the money for much less work. No way.

[/ QUOTE ]

The amount of work that you do almost never correlates to how much a person earns. Do you think CEOs do 1,000 times the work of a construction worker?

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Right, so you want more than twice the money for much less work. No way.

[/ QUOTE ]

The amount of work that you do almost never correlates to how much a person earns. Do you think CEOs do 1,000 times the work of a construction worker?

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahahaha. You are talking about tipping a caddy. You are only making the case that $10-$15 is indeed the appropriate tipping amount for a forecaddy that takes care of a foursome.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Right, so you want more than twice the money for much less work. No way.

[/ QUOTE ]

The amount of work that you do almost never correlates to how much a person earns. Do you think CEOs do 1,000 times the work of a construction worker?

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahahaha. You are talking about tipping a caddy. You are only making the case that $10-$15 is indeed the appropriate tipping amount for a forecaddy that takes care of a foursome.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm telling you what I got paid when I worked as a caddy and what the going rate is and you are trying to justify your cheapness. At the place I worked at the minimum for a forecaddy was $25 a person. That is excluding any tip. That's what it is. If you don't like it, you don't have to play there. You cannot say that the caddy does not deserve to be paid that much and stiff him, just like you cannot decide you don't like what plumber charges you when that is the fair market rate.

Although $30 might be high for a caddy in some places, there is no way that the rate anywhere is the $10 that you stated.

[Clarkmeister]

The question was about how much to tip. And that's why it's a tip. Because I decide what the service was worth. You seem to misunderstand what a tip actually is, and it's not a salary and it's not owed.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
The question was about how much to tip. And that's why it's a tip. Because I decide what the service was worth. You seem to misunderstand what a tip actually is, and it's not a salary and it's not owed.

[/ QUOTE ]

A caddy is not paid in pure tips. The golfer is required to pay a set fee and then you tip on top of that. Are you saying that you tip $10 on top of the set fee, or that you pay $10 total?

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The question was about how much to tip. And that's why it's a tip. Because I decide what the service was worth. You seem to misunderstand what a tip actually is, and it's not a salary and it's not owed.

[/ QUOTE ]

A caddy is not paid in pure tips. The golfer is required to pay a set fee and then you tip on top of that. Are you saying that you tip $10 on top of the set fee, or that you pay $10 total?

[/ QUOTE ]

Initial post:

[ QUOTE ]
How much should our group tip this guy?

[/ QUOTE ]

My response

[ QUOTE ]
$10 a guy is fine for this situation. Maybe a little more if he is exceptional.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought my stance throughout this thread was quite clear.

[slickpoppa]

And you realize that tipping $10 a man adds up to paying about $30 a person, right?

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
And you realize that tipping $10 a man adds up to paying about $30 a person, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you retarded?

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And you realize that tipping $10 a man adds up to paying about $30 a person, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you retarded?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. You've made statements that are contradictory. You have said that you tip $10. At every golf course I have ever played at that has caddies, you are required to pay about $20, which would equal $30 with a $10 tip. However, since you said that you don't think that a caddy deserves $30 an hour for caddying for a full group of golfers, I thought you meant that you only would pay a caddy $10 total per person.

So here is my question: you and 3 friends play a round of golf with a caddy at a course that requires you to pay the caddy $20 per person, how much money total money do you give to the caddy at the end of the round?

[banditbdl]

20 dollars for me, from what I gather of the forecaddie job description there is no way I could justify paying them anymore than 20 dollars an hour. No if the $20 dollar fee is split up between actually salarying the forecaddie and the club taking a slice out of it, then I would probably tip something to the guy on top if he did a good job.

[slickpoppa]

Caddies are completely independent of the club. They do not get paid by the club, and they do not give anything to the club.

[banditbdl]

Yeah, then my standard pay would be $20 bucks (unless the club had a higher forced charge) and then I would go above that if I was happy with the guys work, which would probably be pretty often since I'm easy to please.

[DireWolf]

In 9th grade i was a forecaddie. One really cloudy day i was watching my guys tee off. It was the ninth hole. One guy teed off, and i lost the ball in the clouds. Next thing i know the ball hits me right in the shoulder blade, out of the air. It hurt like hell, but they paide me 100 bucks and let me go home, which was worth it i think. Heh

[judgesmails]

We played Royal Links. I just got home. It was an "okay" course, but I am spoiled when it comes to playing nice golf courses. I got an email special rate of $50 greens fees and I suppose in comparison to Paiute and Primm - my preferred courses - that is what I would pay in the future. I would never pay the standard $120 - $150 for it.

I checked their website before play and they suggested tipping the forecaddie $25 per bag and the starter suggested the same. Two of us tipped $25 the other guy tipped $30 and a fourth they paired us with tipped $30. So he made $110 for four hours on the course. He was a nice kid, but that is a good wage considering the work.

Anyway, I am a Vegas local and if you are handing out golf comps consider my hand to be out.

[CCass]

[ QUOTE ]
First--a forecaddie that doesn't carry putters? I caddied for two summers when I was in middle school, and forecaddied once in a while--usually only when the course had an "outing" schedule (a corporation or some other group rents out the course and non-members play). One of the main responsibilities of the forecaddie was to carry the putters. Do forecaddies not do this everywhere?

Second--whoa! Either you guys are very generous tippers (doubtful--no offense, but everything I have seen in OOT suggests an average to slightly-below-average tipping tendency), or standard tips have gone way up since I caddied. I worked at a pretty nice club in an affluent suburb, and caddies at nearby clubs seemed to get paid about the same as us (even the PGA course at the Westchester Country Club), so I'm doubting I worked at a particularly stingy club. Back in the day ('92-'93) we would get about $10 per person for forecaddying. That was what the club reccomended to the patrons, too. In today's dollars that's $13.15. So--I'm still unsure about what exactly happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which club did you caddy at? I caddied at Scarsdale Country Club in '87 and '88. Worked at Wykagill (sp.?) a couple of times when they had a special outing.

And in '87 / '88 I got $10 per player for being a forecaddie.

[Rick Diesel]

This "forecaddie" is not carrying any clubs and has the simple task of telling you where not to hit your balls and then helping to find them when you do hit them there. With the help of someone that knows the course and is also helping to locate balls, a round of golf should take no more than 5 hours. $60 total from the group would be $12 an hour which I would consider an excellent wage for what work is being done, and as I am sure that this money is not being reported, it would actually be more like $15-$16 per hour. This would be $15 per person, and seems more than reasonable to me.

Rick Diesel

[htc1278]

Right, so you want more than twice the money for much less work. No way.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not less work. It is probably more work. You have to know where 4 balls are at all times (and be there to show the member). You have to have yardage for all 4 balls. You have 4 sets of clubs to keep clean. You have 4 times as many sand traps to rake. You have 4 times the number of divots to replace. Carrying 1 set of clubs for 18 holes is easy for a caddie. You get to take a nice, leisurely stroll across the golfcourse while forecaddies have to run all over the course.

[b0000000000m]

Mt. Kisco Country Club

[edtost]

i caddied at mkcc from 2000 till now, caddy rates are 40+tip/bag, 15+/putter for a chase job and 5+/putter when carrying bags. usual tips brought me to ~120 for 2 bags, ~80-120 for a forecaddy job, and ~150-60 for 2 up/2 down.

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
It is not less work. It is probably more work. You have to know where 4 balls are at all times (and be there to show the member). You have to have yardage for all 4 balls. You have 4 sets of clubs to keep clean. You have 4 times as many sand traps to rake. You have 4 times the number of divots to replace. Carrying 1 set of clubs for 18 holes is easy for a caddie. You get to take a nice, leisurely stroll across the golfcourse while forecaddies have to run all over the course.

[/ QUOTE ]

what kind of caddy who's been employed for > a month and not on tour carrys one bag?

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For actually carrying a bag i would get paid 50-60

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, so you want more than twice the money for much less work. No way.

[/ QUOTE ]

no caddy worth taking with you carrys one bag, ever.

[slickpoppa]

Right, I always had two bags, or two bags plus two on the cart. With some groups I was making 200 for 2 up and 2 down

[b0000000000m]

Do they still have the A/B/C caddy ratings, with different base pay rates? If I remember correctly it was something like $22+tip for a C-caddy, 27+tip for a B-caddy, and 32+tip for an A.

[edtost]

theoretically, yes. in reality, b doesn't exist, and anyone physically capable of carrying 2 bags gets paid as an a, and those were the rates i quoted. i think the posted base rates are 30,35,40/bag for a,b,c.

[gvibes]

I caddied for ~10 years at one of the more exclusive clubs in Chicago, and I keep in touch with the caddymaster there.

We would normally only carry one bag, or chase one cart, as we had an overabundance of caddies. The current going rate is roughly 75-80 per cart/bag. Most courses will pay slightly less for carts, but mine didn't.

We didn't receive anything from the club - everything was paid from the members'/players' pocket.

Caddying is the greatest job in the world, bar none. At the sort of club the OP is describing, I would guess they make 100-120 a round, so 25-30 a man sounds right (assuming they do a decent job).

And don't let them ride on the back of the cart - make the bastard run.

[b0000000000m]

"And don't let them ride on the back of the cart - make the bastard run. "

No caddy worth his/her salt would even attempt to ride on the back of the cart. Totally tacky.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]

No caddy worth his/her salt would even attempt to ride on the back of the cart. Totally tacky.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure if you've been back to Kisco lately, but forecaddies walking from the first green to the second tee are few and far between, same with 17 green to 18 tee.