View Full Version : donked up KTs
mr pink
03-27-2005, 02:59 AM
my table image is LAGged up to the max, mostly from pushing draws on the flop and not having them come in, also some whiffed overcard bets that must be getting suspicious.
3 limpers to me on the button with K /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif, i raise, blinds fold, limpers all call.
4 to the flop for 9.5 sbs
flop: 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif
checked to me, i bet, they all call...
turn: 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif - 4 players - 6ish bbs
checked to me, i bet, 1 fold, 2nd limper calls, 3rd limper check/raises, action to me...
Shillx
03-27-2005, 03:02 AM
Goto war here. You are freerolling him unless he has JT.
Brad
mr pink
03-27-2005, 03:10 AM
what do you mean by freerolling
[ QUOTE ]
what do you mean by freerolling
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless he has JT, you have the current nuts. If a spade falls, you improve. You have (essentially) a free split pot but with the chance to improve -- he does not.
mr pink
03-27-2005, 03:18 AM
gotcha.
i called. in this hand btw. my thought at the time was that i probably have the 1st limper crushed, and i wasn't sure about the second limper that check/raised. i didnt want to raise, loose the 1st limper and then get 3-bet by the check/raiser.
someone get it into my head that my reasoning here was really bad.
sthief09
03-27-2005, 03:31 AM
I really hate that flop bet
sthief09
03-27-2005, 03:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
what do you mean by freerolling
[/ QUOTE ]
a freeroll is when you have the same hand, but the other guy has no way of improving, while you do. 2 examples:
1. AQ vs A2 on a AAJJ board on the turn
2. Q/images/graemlins/heart.gifJ/images/graemlins/heart.gif vs QJo on a A/images/graemlins/heart.gifK/images/graemlins/heart.gifTx board
mr pink
03-27-2005, 03:33 AM
why exactly?
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my thought at the time was that i probably have the 1st limper crushed, and i wasn't sure about the second limper that check/raised. i didnt want to raise, loose the 1st limper and then get 3-bet by the check/raiser.
someone get it into my head that my reasoning here was really bad.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is a really tough board to bluff at -- put another way, I think second limper must have a made hand to C/R you. His made hand is worse than yours unless he has JT. I would expect him to 3-bet you here (or at least play on the river), and I think you should welcome the 3-bet since it most likely means either (1) a split pot (with the chance that you improve to a flush on the river); or (2) a set that, in oh so typical fashion, was slowplayed on the flop. The former gives you a split or better; the latter gives you $$$.
sthief09
03-27-2005, 03:38 AM
because there are 3 other people, the board is 876 so you have 0 chance of taking it down, you have a one card gut shot, you almost certainly don't have the best hand, and it's unlikely that you're going to (1) not get check raised ont he flop, AND (2) not get bet into on the turn if you don't get checkraised. they're giving you the opportunity to take a free card with a crappy draw and not the best hand. take it.
Shillx
03-27-2005, 03:38 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I really hate that flop bet
[/ QUOTE ]
Meh it is isn't great but I don't think it falls in the "really hate" catagory like a bet with KQ on a Axx flop would be into many opponents.
Brad
mr pink
03-27-2005, 03:41 AM
yeah the flop bet does suck /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
sthief09
03-27-2005, 03:44 AM
the difference is anyone who has a clue would check the flop you described. the flop in the OP is one that many people would bet at without a second thought. that's why I hate it. but maybe I'm not betting there enough.
mr pink
03-27-2005, 03:46 AM
i agree that he had to have a made hand in order to check/raise this spot. i guess i just got greedy thinking that i wanted to keep the 1st limper in there b/c he'd already called a bet and would most likely call 1 more but fold for 2. i also didn't want to get 3-bet, but i really should have welcomed that because more often it's a split than i'm actually behind to JT. even if that's the case, i have 9 outs to a flush, so it's not the end of the world.
[ QUOTE ]
. . . but i really should have welcomed that because more often it's a split than i'm actually behind to JT. even if that's the case, i have 9 outs to a flush, so it's not the end of the world.
[/ QUOTE ]
That, I think, is the key.
mr pink
03-27-2005, 03:51 AM
so without the flush draw, you think a call would be in order?
sthief09
03-27-2005, 03:53 AM
I would still raise. too great a chance for him to have a J, a set, or two pair. make him make a good fold with a J or two pair rather than a good call. and maybe he'll make a mistake and fold a set
Flint{$N}
03-27-2005, 03:55 AM
i raise
mr pink
03-27-2005, 03:59 AM
3 limpers to me on the button with K T , i raise, blinds fold, limpers all call.
4 to the flop for 9.5 sbs
flop: 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif
checked to me, i bet, they all call...
turn: 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif - 4 players - 6ish bbs
checked to me, i bet, 1 fold, 2nd limper calls, 3rd limper check/raises, action to me, i call, 2nd limper calls.
river: T /images/graemlins/club.gif - 3 players 12 bbs
1st limper bets, 2nd raises, i fold...
[ QUOTE ]
I would still raise. too great a chance for him to have a J, a set, or two pair. make him make a good fold with a J or two pair rather than a good call. and maybe he'll make a mistake and fold a set
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I'd raise without the flush draw. I think you're most likely up against a set, but the others are possible. If the river doesn't pair the board, I think you're good way more often than not. And if you can fold a set on the turn, then it is a coup (a minor one, but a nice one nonetheless).
sthief09
03-27-2005, 04:07 AM
I make a lot of dumb calls in that spot, paranoid that my opponents are trying to push me out of a chop. you're getting 6-1 and having to possibly face more action
I have no idea whyh you didn't 3-bet the turn
mr pink
03-27-2005, 04:09 AM
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I have no idea whyh you didn't 3-bet the turn
[/ QUOTE ]
cause i'm a fish.
cnfuzzd
03-27-2005, 04:13 AM
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I really hate that flop bet
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how much are you discounting the king outs? I think at 2/4 this would be an auto bet, and im generally making this at 3/6 all the time.
peace
john nickle
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