how to play low flush draws when facing aggression?

[therockofgibraltar]

$0,5/1 Pacific Poker.

I am a succer with these very low flush draws.

UTG1 call, UTG2 folds, UTG3 folds, M1 calls, M2 folds, M3 calls, I call CO with 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif B raises.
SB calls, BB fols, everybody else calls.

Flop: 12SB. 6 players
J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif

check-check-M1 bets-M3 calls, I call, Button raises, SB calls, UTG1 calls, M1 three-bets- M3 calls, I fold.

I REALISE NOW THAT THIS IS VERY BAD BUT I JUST CAN'T PLAY 43s like Axs?

[Shillx]

This is just tragic. Why did you call preflop with 43s if you plan on folding when you flop the money hand??????????? /images/graemlins/frown.gif

This is weak-tight play.

Brad

[cmwck]

Fold PF

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold PF

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely the optimal choice.

The pot is big enough, though, that I think I'd stay in it the entire way through. The only way you can win is hitting a flush, but if anybody has 2 spades you're drawing dead, and if the flush comes on the turn, you can get outdrawn on the river by virtually anybody holding a spade. Just fold PF and you'll save yourself (and us) the grief.

[davelin]

Oh man

[therockofgibraltar]

well obviously I would not have folded to a raise but how about that three-bet and five opponents? How can you assume my 4 high flush (if i get it) is good?

I know I played this very badly but should I just call all the way with 4 high flush with five opponents. Is this going to win often enough? When do you make the decision your hand ain't good? When you hit your flush and still get raised/reraised??

Many say my preflop call is bad. But in late position, quite many opponents, SSH chart says call /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
well obviously I would not have folded to a raise but how about that three-bet and five opponents? How can you assume my 4 high flush (if i get it) is good?

I know I played this very badly but should I just call all the way with 4 high flush with five opponents. Is this going to win often enough? When do you make the decision your hand ain't good? When you hit your flush and still get raised/reraised??

Many say my preflop call is bad. But in late position, quite many opponents, SSH chart says call /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem like you're mixing up ideas here. You have doubts about playing 43s when you flop your draw against 5 players, but if there were less players in the hand, you wouldn't have played 43s preflop.

Furthermore, the only value your hand really has is hitting a flush, but if you have doubts that somebody is holding 2 spades, then why do you play your cards knowing the value of your hand has severely been reduced.

26SB in the pot when action comes back around to you. I don't think there's even a question if this pot is big enough to continue playing.

[davelin]

Your flush is good more than 1/6 when you hit it here. I hope no spades came on the turn or river. I would've kicked myself.

[Shillx]

I hope no spades came on the turn or river. I would've kicked myself.

Wrong. I would have kicked myself for clicking the fold button on the flop. Even if no /images/graemlins/spade.gifs had come I would have been kicking myself.

OP: The preflop call is fine. The postflop play stinks worse then a overflown septic tank.

Brad

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope no spades came on the turn or river. I would've kicked myself.

Wrong. I would have kicked myself for clicking the fold button on the flop. Even if no /images/graemlins/spade.gifs had come I would have been kicking myself.

OP: The preflop call is fine. The postflop play stinks worse then a overflown septic tank.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, a little results-oriented thinking never hurt anyone Brad.

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hope no spades came on the turn or river. I would've kicked myself.

Wrong. I would have kicked myself for clicking the fold button on the flop. Even if no /images/graemlins/spade.gifs had come I would have been kicking myself.

OP: The preflop call is fine. The postflop play stinks worse then a overflown septic tank.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, a little results-oriented thinking never hurt anyone Brad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I'm getting pissed that I'm 0 for my last 6 in limit SNG's. /images/graemlins/frown.gif My ROI is going to hell....

Brad

[davelin]

Sorry to hear that dude. FWIW I'm one of 57 left in the Empire $1000 guaranteed MTT with the top 40 getting into the money.

[Kevin K.]

[ QUOTE ]
well obviously I would not have folded to a raise but how about that three-bet and five opponents? How can you assume my 4 high flush (if i get it) is good?

[/ QUOTE ]

The question isn't really whether or not you can assume that your hand will be good. What you need to ask yourself at this point is, "Will my hand be good better than 1 in 6 times?"

[ QUOTE ]
Many say my preflop call is bad. But in late position, quite many opponents, SSH chart says call /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Try to think beyond the fact that the chart says to call here and consider why it says to call. Anytime that you flop a 4-flush with 43s, you are going to be facing overcards. Against 5 opponents in a raised pot, there's a good chance that you're going to face aggression postflop. If your hand isn't playable here, then when is it playable?

I would be capping this flop myself. If a spade came off on the turn, my next action would depend on my reads...is someone who bet the flop betting the turn, and if so, do I think they are capable of betting their flush draws, etc. This would ONLY be to determine whether I'm calling or raising the turn, not folding. You have to cross that bridge when you come to it. For now, bottom line is you have a 4-flush against 5 opponents and your pot equity is huge.