poker and life

The other day I was playing in a 20-40 game with one of the only real true pros at the casino I play at. As for myself I am only 23 and just finishing school, but I am seriously considering playing poker 40 hours a week or so after I finish. At any rate, pro in this particular game gets Kings beat by 52s in th little blind after he called 2 and a half bets cold pre flop. He made a gut straight on the turn and took down a 600 dollar pot. After the hand pro turns to me and says finish school and get a job a job dont be like these guys who are all lonely bitter and miserable. I have talked with him in the past about the pluses and minuses of being a pro. Poker ability aside, my question is, can a person really truley be happy ni this profession? After keeping stats for three years as for myslef I still cant make a big bet an hour over the 10-20 level. But money aside, it seems a lot of the people I know who are putting in 40+ hours a week are indeed miserable. ANy thoughts from those who have had some success and or happyness from this lifestyle?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Anywhere you look in life you'll find people who are sick and miserable. The jobs that have guarantees are the ones that'll kill you from the boredom. In the end, you beat yourself up more for NOT taking the shot.

[budman]

I always thought I would like to play poker full time if I were able to put enough money away so I did not have to worry about paying for all of my expenses at the table.

That was before I spent several weeks in Las Vegas. I played every day at some premier casinos, mostly Bellagio and Mirage. The pros I played with (15-30 and 20-40) did not seem to enjoy themselves as much as I did. I was playing for the sport and to test my skills. These guys were trying to pay for health insurance for their kids.

The life of a full-time poker professional is brutal. It seems harder to me than being an entrepeneur and running a small business.

I don't know if that's because I am not a great player, but for me, playing for a living would take a lot of the fun out of the game.

That being said, I do know a young man who plays full time at the highest levels in the Connecticut casinos, makes a nice living, married a nice girl who has a career of her own and has the respect and love of his family. So it can be done.

If you think you are good enough to make it, try it now while you are young and don't have children or a mortgage. You can always quit and get a part time or full time job later on.

[balt999]

Personally, I think professional poker is a tough and I resepct anyone who does it for a living at it and is successful...I think you need to be strong mentally to handle the ups and downs, and hours of lonliness and boredom a lot of pros endure.

That being said, if you treat it as a job....put in the necessary 40 hrs into it, but still leave yourself time to be a well-rounded human being (have other intrests)..I think it can be done.

[oddjob]

some days i think i'd like to play poker professionally, if only i could become a winning player. but on the other hand, i play it for fun now, and it is fun. i don't get really upset over bad beats or bad sessions. i can joke around and play correctly and some days play in a loose wild game and play that style and it's super fun. there's nothing like dragging a huge pot by making some weird runner runner gutshot straight, and have everyone at the table laughing about it.

but i think as a profession, it would no longer be fun. it would be work. it would be long and tedious and frustrating, and stressful. it'd take a lot of discipline and a lot of patience. that's not fun to me.

i'd rather work a job i like now, and play poker for fun. if i lose money, oh well, i didn't bet the rent money, if i break even, great! i can play tomorrow, if i win, even better!

i figure this is all training for when i'm old and retired, and can play poker all the time cause i don't work no more. there's some really nice, fun, older players at the casino i play at.

[Herb N.]

I played casino poker for over 15yrs.I was always a +$20grand a year winner.I sold my busness&toured the country for 3yrs with a Pro of 7yrs.I live in Michigan so I had to drive a min.of 90miles to a casino.My buddy[a great guy&I]Toured around the country together split expences for 3yrs.Chicago,St.Louis,Tunica,El Paso,K.C.,Las Vegas,Albuquerque,Pheonix,Ect,Ect.Was it fun?You betcha!Did I make $$$You Betcha!BUT Did I like being away from my loved ones for mayby 6/wks at a time?Did I like waking up in a hotel then killing time waiting for the better games?How about fighting the crouds?Then faceing the bad beats..O.K all that is realy not so bad..Now the money..I found on tue./wed.the games were not that good,Thr.they got a little beter,Friday&Saterday they were always great.[I took Sun&Mon off]I found my profit at the end of the year confermed this.I played mostly between 6/12&15/30 I never drank,or played tired,I was 99.9%tilt free.In other words I did alot of things right!But my expences were[after spiltting with a companion]8/to10/grand a year.Not counting the rake,plus tips,added up to $18-22grand a year.after the rake I showed:$20-$32grand profit,minus travel expences=around$18,grand.But you gotta pay for your own insurance,around$6Gr.this left me with Mayby$10/15grand a year.And let me tell you I got some flaws,BUT i'm one tough player...If you got a degree,get a job,make some money,play poker on the side...Its realy fun & you have fun Keep records..Accurate Records..Learn how people think...then learn how they think you think..This game is %50 mechanics&%50Feel..Have fun,When your injoying yourself the table will gamble.Gamble:don't play so close that you forget to gamble,but now I'm getting away from the question.....I always injoyed myself,I was never miserable...As a full time job It's just not that a great a deal,As a matter of fact at your age it's for shi...poop....Later on as a additional income IT'S GREAT! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Very good point. Try it while you're young and see if you can handle the emotional and financial roller coaster ride, the biggest stumbling block for would be professionals. Later in life, you can then say you gave it a try. It was really tough for me because I had a family and a mortgage when I did it for 2+ years. Now I have great admiration and respect for all you do it for a living.

[Tommy Angelo]

There's more to winning than merely winning. Doesn't much matter what the game or career is.

Whenever I read a post about how miserable it must be to be a professional poker player, it reminds me a little of the pain, but it can't even come close to dimming the joy. What would I give to have absolute freedom for the last 12 years? Well, everything. So I did. Still a good bargain, even with the pain, and even if I crash and burn in the future.

Tommy

[snakehead]

if you can make it work, go for it. I know a lot of young people who are poker pro's, and they live a great life. they drive nice cars, own real estate, and do as they please. I really wish I had done it when I was young.

the toughest thing for you will be building a bankroll. you really need to play 20-40 or higher to make it in this business. and it's almost impossible to build it up by playing 10-20 while paying all your living expenses. I don't know where you live, but maybe you could live with your parents until you save enough money, or maybe get lots of roommates.

of course, this is all assuming you can beat the game. but my experience tells me that if you are determined, you can. las vegas is full of people who make a living from poker, some more and some less, who are certainly not geniuses. you can do it if you really want to.

and if it doesn't work out, you still have the degree.

[Trefo]

The key is you have to love your job. If you love poker and love playing full time then i believe you should go for it. I currently love my current job and play poker on the side a couple of times a month if i'm lucky. Poker to me is a great place to earn some additional cash and unwind. Maybe even play in a tournament whenever one presents itself. I don't think you should be in a profession where you'll end up miserable....life's too short. At 25, you've got to take some risks in your life....If you take your shot and end up not liking it, you'll be what 27 or 28 and still have your degree to fall back on. If not, you'll be asking yourself "what if" and beating yourself up about it.

[mikelow]

I could never do it.

[mikelow]

on one BB per hour? Let's see now.... Maybe if you're a 40-80 pro, and a really good one at that.

Good luck!

[sandsmarc]

You can be "happy" if the ultimate goal and purpose of your life is simply to earn a living. At your age your goals should be quite a bit higher. You probably know that in your gut, which might be why you're asking. The doubts you're having are justified, don't dismiss them. You really don't need others' opinions. Just look around the tables and around the rooms and come to a conclusion, if you haven't already.

[HDPM]

I think its fine to see if you would like to do it and if you can do it at this point in your life. I wouldn't foreclose other options yet though. If I were you I'd look to do graduate work somewhere with poker. One degree won't cut it as far as getting a good job probably. Grad school is dull enough you will probably want to go play poker. (Ooooh, I'm lucky UNLV didn't have their law school open when I went to law school) The problem with poker is not the bad beats or the company, or even the perceived insecurity, but the fact you aren't really creating anything or having any impact. That is fine if it is what you want; I am not knocking any of the pros because they may have a great life that fits them well. Not everyone has the need to create or have an impact, and in fact having those needs can often cause problems. And some pros have outlets for some needs away from poker. But poker isn't enough for some people. So which kind of person are you? Only you can answer that. GL.

Why must you be bored and lonely as a professional poker player? Yeah you put in lots of hours, but isn't this true of anyone who is dedicated to their profession?

At least you're meeting new people every day, unlike many office or trade workers who must relate to the same people day in and day out whether they like them or not.

I'm sure you're sharing some real and possibly valuable experiences. But first off, he/you/no one should be trying to make a living playing 6-12 to 15-30. 15-30 would be the absolute minimum limit I'd suggest if poker is your main source of living. And hey... Even if you're gonna play as low as you did, it still beats the work and wages of many low level positions in this country (if you can live on it).

Are you considering that many pros don't necessarily pay full taxes on their earnings? A 20-40 player's cash earn can easily equate to +6 figures. Of course ALL 2+2 players properly report their poker winnings /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

90% of my playing time was at 10/20 But your right to make a good living you should play higher.I started off with a $12,000 bankroll,So to play higher would put this[bankroll]in danger of ruin.My house & car were/are paid for as a matter of fact I have no debts.or payments,so I did not expect,or need to make lets say + $50gr.Yes it does beat working most low paying jobs.Myself dont recomend it thiers no retirerment,no insurance,ect,For me semi-retired sure! for a young person just out of collage I dont recomend it,But thats just my opinion,and I'm not always rite.

I've been playing poker since high school but it has never been anything more than an enjoyable and generally profitable hobby.

Your main efforts should go towards building the foundations of your financial and personal success, i.e. a good education preferably in a professional field, a good job or business with a good retirement plan, an investment portfolio started very early in life, and a good family life which includes children which you are proud of.

I've always worked with these objectives in focus, which has resulted in their achievement. Poker and other hobbies such as golf can be important pursuits, but they need to be secondary to your main objectives.

Best of luck

[mikelow]

One BB per hour = $40. At 2,080 hours per year (40 per week), that's only $83,200 per year--pretax.

Now we would always fib on on tax returns, would we? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[astroglide]

how about you 5-15hr/week players, do you report your winnings at all?

I'm really glad you posted this, it saved me from posting it which I would have eventually done. I am pretty much in the same boat as you are in that I am 21 and pretty close to finishing school and am considering playing full time when I get out of school. Some might say 21, you've only been playing for less than 1 yr. however on the contrary I've been playing since 17 in Dallas in underground rooms of course, then what school did I pick to go to, none other than UNLV, however, I just transferred to a school in LA, where I play regularly now. Anyway, I figure it's better to take my shot now when responsibilities and bills are both at a minimum. Good luck to you

-D.J.

[astroglide]

you're not furthering your career unless you are going to ALWAYS play poker, and explaining several years of poker playing on a no-job-after-college 'resume' would be comical to say the least

stabilize, play, and then leave your (good) job if you want. it's much harder the other way around.