help on a hand please

[GrannyMae]

hiya,

sorry to intrude here.

i need you guys to take a peek at this and see if i misplayed it.

top 4 got 14k wsop package.

buy-in was $1k.

what is bothering me is whether i should have perhaps just called with the intentions of shoving in regardless of flop. this might have gotten him to lay down.

i felt that being shortest stack and the blinds getting ready to go up again, that folding the A-10 to that small raise was not an option.

however, maybe that was the best play. i have no experience with MTT's that end when it is down to 4, so perhaps i should not have been as intimidated by my stack size being so small.

ty for the help and/or flames. both will be perfectly acceptable.


Game #766686163 - Tournament WSOP $1000 - 300/600 No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/03/26-19:21:39.9 (CST)
Table "WSOP $1000 4" (MTT) -- Seat 6 is the button
Seat 3: Zmatic (9,602 in chips)
Seat 4: senditdown (15,562 in chips)
Seat 6: Ruddie (15,879 in chips)
Seat 7: jasari (13,694 in chips)
Seat 8: GrannyMae (4,801 in chips)
Seat 9: mzk1234 (7,727 in chips)
Seat 10: Richie520 (15,235 in chips)
senditdown: Ante (50)
Ruddie : Ante (50)
jasari : Ante (50)
GrannyMae: Ante (50)
mzk1234 : Ante (50)
Richie520: Ante (50)
Zmatic : Ante (50)
jasari : Post Small Blind (300)
GrannyMae: Post Big Blind (600)
Dealing...
Dealt to GrannyMae [ Td ]
Dealt to GrannyMae [ Ah ]
mzk1234 : Fold
Richie520: Fold
Zmatic : Raise (1,400)
senditdown: Fold
Ruddie : Fold
jasari : Fold
GrannyMae: Raise (4,151)
Zmatic : Call (3,351)
GrannyMae said, "gg"
GrannyMae said, "nh"
*** FLOP *** : [ 8c Kh 4d ]
*** TURN *** : [ 8c Kh 4d ] [ 6d ]
*** RIVER *** : [ 8c Kh 4d 6d ] [ 5s ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 10,152 | Board: [ 8c Kh 4d 6d 5s ]
Zmatic bet 4,801, collected 10,152, net +5,351 (showed hand) [ Ac Qs ] (high card ace)
senditdown lost 50 (folded)
Ruddie lost 50 (folded)
jasari lost 350 (folded)
GrannyMae lost 4,801 (showed hand) [ Td Ah ] (high card ace)
mzk1234 lost 50 (folded)
Richie520 lost 50 (folded)

[MLG]

I'd call and push on any flop here. You might well have the best hand preflop, and with your stack you don't really have time to wait around. Shoving it all-in preflop though really doesnt give yourself very much FE there though. So, I'm gonna call and push on any flop here.

[La Brujita]

Damn I suck, I was watching this as it played out and I would have pushed.

Part of it is based on table dynamics but I felt like there was some folding equity there.

MLG do you think it is close or not really?

Just to expand my thinking, GM needed some chips, pretty soon (in a few rounds) there would be littlefolding equity, I thought there was a little here, GM might have best hand preflop, and calling and pushing on any flop has the danger of allowing worse hand or hand that would fold pf to catch up.

[MLG]

Was this the final table? If it was then disregard everything ive said or am about to say.

Its close for two reasons. 1, given that i wasn't watching I can't know if Granny had folding equity. 2. Given that Granny's short if the open raiser had a particularly wide range, it might be better to just get it all-in now preflop, and gamble with the edge you have over their range of hands and try to double up.

I lean to pushing on the flop, but im not gonna say pushing preflop is wrong here.

[La Brujita]

Yeah it was final table of 1k buyin four seats to wsop. The general comment I think you and I agree on is often hard to say in a vacuum what the right play is.

I can see an argument either way here. I just think the push is what I would have done.

[fnord_too]

Flame: Use the hand converter

Comment: If villain is an agressive raiser, I like pushing. If he is a tight raiser, then a stop and go or fold is better. I don't think pushing could ever be too wrong here (unless the pfr is a complete rock, but you would have mentioned that.)

[MLG]

Ok, I'm pushing at the final table, you have a lot of FE then I think.

In my sat right before the bubble I pushed KQ and got QQ to lay down. Its correct to fold a lot more hands getting a lot better odds in this situation.

[GrannyMae]

So, I'm gonna call and push on any flop here.


i never even considered this until 5 minutes later. i had thought shove or fold, then realized the call push option. i'm still not sure if he would have folded considering i had pennies left and winning this pot almost assure him the seat, but i need to start thinking differently and that's why i asked.

i'm actually pretty pleased that i thought of this option, even though it was too late. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

i was 39 of 40 at one point so i'm pleased with the finish. yes, the differece between my finish and 2 spots away was 13k, but i'm going to play more of these and someone just told me about this forum. i never knew it was here. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

this old limit player has a lot to learn.

ty for the input


edit: note to self. read whole thread

Ok, I'm pushing at the final table

[GrannyMae]

Flame: Use the hand converter

duly noted

Comment: If villain is an agressive raiser, I like pushing. If he is a tight raiser, then a stop and go or fold is better. I don't think pushing could ever be too wrong here (unless the pfr is a complete rock, but you would have mentioned that.)


i think i was the rock. he surely was not.