set of eights, flush card on the turn

[KDawgCometh]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB caps</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB


reads: sb was extremely loose PF and generally a calling station post flop. BB seemed to be a tag and good player. Hadn't locked horns with him too much and he hadn't been at the table for too long, but enough to form a good sketch. He knew what he was doing and was fairly smart post flop.

Should I have raised the turn, or was I right to call it down. The sb didn't neccessarily have the flush, but he liked his hand for sure

[CallMeIshmael]

I like a raise on the turn.

He has 77, 33 or 87 (no a whole lotta those out there) a lot here, IMO.

[billyjex]

raise the turn and it's not even close.

[LondonBroil]

SB would probably not be check-raising his flush draw on the flop knocking the BB out.

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
SB would probably not be check-raising his flush draw on the flop ....

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise turn.

[JoshuaD]

Definitely pop him on the turn.

[ArturiusX]

Even if he flips over a flush, I still raise this. Why? BB is trapped between a raise, and you still have odds to hit your boat/quads.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if he flips over a flush, I still raise this. Why? BB is trapped between a raise, and you still have odds to hit your boat/quads.

[/ QUOTE ]


2:1 isn't good immediate odds here. You need more like 4:1. If he flipped over a flush I'd call and river a boat.

[KDawgCometh]

thanks all. I think this hand is just some residue from jumping up from 1/2 where some jerkoff in this situation seems to flip over a flush because it was soooooted

[mr pink]

i don't think this is an automatic raise, especially given the read on the villain.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if he flips over a flush, I still raise this. Why? BB is trapped between a raise, and you still have odds to hit your boat/quads.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he flips over a flush, raising is pretty bad.

EDIT: A 10 outter is 3.6-1 to come in. You need 4 players calling to initiate new money into the pot when behind. Raising when he turns over a flush is very very bad.

[CallMeIshmael]

Edited because I thought it might be in bad taste...

[mr pink]

unless you're trying to get 3-bet. i think based on a read, a call here is fine... i don't know why everyone was quick to jump to a raise. Loose/Passives don't usually checkraise too often, but are quick to bet their legitamate hands on the turn in a very straightforward way because they are afraid that it'll get checked through.

edit: my post makes no sense, misread the action.

yeah pop the turn, you are probably ahead.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
unless you're trying to get 3-bet. i think based on a read, a call here is fine... i don't know why everyone was quick to jump to a raise. Loose/Passives don't usually checkraise too often, but are quick to bet their legitamate hands on the turn in a very straightforward way because they are afraid that it'll get checked through.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think anyone is debating whether or not he has a hand.... how many loose passives cap a flush draw, is the question.

It seems a lot more like SoS than anything, IMO.

[wrto4556]

Why are we raising this preflop from MP1?

[mr pink]

would you raise 99 from utg?

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
would you raise 99 from utg?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[ErrantNight]

what about TT?

[billyjex]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are we raising this preflop from MP1?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm raising this from MP1 and later. I would limp with it from an earlier position.

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
what about TT?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. but from MP1 I would rather limp with 88 and play it for set value since there is a good amount of people to act behind me. MP3 I'd raise to play it as a pair. Just seems premature. The last place I want to be is in for two bets with two overcards and 3 opponents.

[ErrantNight]

i was mainly joking. but a lot depends on your table. on a full table, MP1 (4th position) is where I start raising these, table conditions depending.

[bernie]

Callingstations generally dont jam draws. There's a reason we call them callingstations. Given this, I'd raise the turn.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if he flips over a flush, I still raise this. Why? BB is trapped between a raise, and you still have odds to hit your boat/quads.

[/ QUOTE ]

um......What?

I guess you really don't understand the 'value' part of value betting a draw.

If he flips over a flush, you are losing money for each additional bet going in on this street regardless of the fact you have the pot odds to call .

You don't have enough opponents in to jam this to be even close to +EV.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
where some jerkoff in this situation seems to flip over a flush because it was soooooted


[/ QUOTE ]

You don't like these 'jerkoffs' at your table?

Usually when most flip over a flush, jerkoff or nonjerkoff, it's because it was soooted. What other reason is there?

b