table or site too bad to beat

[mpakt]

I read and have re-read Sklansky's book on Small Stakes Poker and it has paid for itself many times over. After reading many of the posts and from my experience I am beginning to think there are some games that are just too bad to beat. I have played on Poker Stars which has a reputation for having good players and I have done quite well there. I play on Party Poker which has a reputation for having it's fair share of fish. I have done well there also. Recently I joined Pacific Poker which has the worst players on the face of the earth, I got murdered. I played patient, played solid and no matter what I got sucked out over and over again. It seems when you have 6-8 players going to the end individually they lose but as a team they kill you because one of them will hit a riduculous draw. I know this sounds like the same old song, but even when you hit a good pot it is hard to overcome the blinds and the suck outs. Sorry if this sounds like whining but I just can't figure it out.

[Adjutor]

On a table that loose your drawing hands are going to pay off a lot. Don't expect AA and KK to win as often if 6-8 are seeing the flop, but with solid pay you will win in the long run. I found it tough starting off there (1/2 just clearing the bonus) but I turned into a winning player rather easily.

[mpakt]

appreciate that. Man it has been a tough weekend, drives you nuts losing over and over again.

[unimproved]

[ QUOTE ]
appreciate that. Man it has been a tough weekend, drives you nuts losing over and over again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a bad weekend too, lost about 100BB. Still, it was only over six thousand hands. Just normal short term variance.

[mpakt]

what is normal variance? I mean no matter how well you play there are times that nothing works or you don't hands etc..

[PokerProdigy]

I feel your pain, because recently I have had a similar problem but at PartyPoker. Now I have not neccessarily got killed but I feel like I am losing way too much money with way too many good hands. It's like I'll win a couple hundred in a few days and a few days later, I'll be back were I started.

But anyway, back to your question. In Small Stakes Hold'em I remember Sklansky saying "There is NO way that having bad opponents can make you lose money, because the way poker players make money is off their opponents mistakes." I also am guessing that the nature of these bad players makes the standard deviation (if you are fimilar with Malmuth) of small stakes games increase, so sometimes you can have a huge swing in the negative direction even though you're playing good poker.

If anyone agrees or disagrees with me, let me know. Because I am also starting to wonder whether some "bad" players make it difficult to win.

[mpakt]

You make a very good point and I think you are right. I had a horrible few days all the way around lol. I was looking at my charts and it has been up for weeks and in two days it fell off a cliff, but in the last few hours I have got myself back to even. The good thing is that I feel I don't go on tilts and play stays pretty solid during the good and bad streaks. Wow is it hard though when nothing seems to go right. He also said that poker is gambling, even the casinos go through losing streaks but they know in time the house edge will win. I guess we have to keep that in mind.

[cassady]

Two things:

1). Sounds like a bad weekend. This is just variance. As my uncle always said, poker goes in cycles.

2). If 6-8 people really are going to the river, remember your drawing hands are going to improve. If there isn't a TON of preflop raising, the fact that this many people go all the way gives you incredible implied odds. So play some of your drawing hands (small pockets, etc) in earlier positions than you normally would in a tight game.

[ErrantNight]

you are whining. and this post doesn't offer anything for us to help you improve your game.

if players = worse, your ev = +

don't bluff, value bet relentlessly, be careful of loose passive bad players when they start betting/raising, etc. etc. etc. etc.

[mpakt]

Your right on both accounts Cassidy. My problem was no hands and no flops, draws etc.. So your point is well taken. It is funny thought it seems easier sometimes to play against good players than it does with crappy ones, although I know your overall ev isn't near as good.

[mpakt]

ah sorry about that.

[ErrantNight]

no, it's fine... i hope i didn't come off too harsh... and we've all been there... but the bad beats come and they go... and there's more of them there... but you can figure it out, i promise! keep at it

[Shillx]

Yup I'm pretty sure it is impossible to beat the games you describe. Stick with the high limit games where the are fewer bad beats and where your raises actually get respect.

Brad

[mpakt]

I appreciate your insight. It helps reading some of these different posts and replies. It is pretty cool actually. It is really funny or weird how streaks run. This one has almost parralled the way my weak has gone so it almost seems when when it rains it pours. But I will say Errant, Sklanskys and Malmuths work has made me normally a consistent winner and that is way cool. I was playing a little while ago and this woman was raising everything, I kept re-raising and check-raising I ended up turning the last two days around off of her, I started to feel bad for her, she went broke three times.