Found a full pay VP Ms=achine ??? 105%

[candokaz]

My questionis : I found a Jacks or better VP machine. The 8/5 payout makes it way less than full pay BUT the 5 coin Royal Flush payout 25 cents pays 20000 coins or 5K I think its positive , according to Paymars book but i'd like other opinions the pay scale is 1-2-3-4-5-8-25-60-800 but with 5 coins royal pays 20k coins what do you think

[pzhon]

Are you sure you have the details right? The 20k payout makes this +EV by a lot. The return is 107.2478% according to WinPoker, though that assumes you are making the correct strategy adjustments.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif At that jackpot level, 4 to a royal flush is better than a straight flush.
/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Three to a royal is better than a straight, and usually better than three of a kind.
/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Two to a royal is better than two offsuit high cards or a gutshot straight draw with 3 high cards.
/images/graemlins/diamond.gif It is sometimes better to hold one high card rather than two offsuit cards. Don't hold a T alone, though.

Keep in mind that 12.86% of the return comes from the royal flush. Without the royal flush, your return will only be 94.4%. You expect to lose about $2k before you hit your first royal flush.

[Terry]

Mind telling us where this machine is?

If your numbers are correct and it’s in a legit casino I’ll get on the next plane out and do some research for you – but if it’s in, like, a truck stop in some out of the way the place, look for an American Coin label and ask around to see if anybody has actually ever hit a royal.

If the machine is indeed legit, pzhon has given the correct numbers ... just keep in mind that some strategy adjustments are necessary and that the game will be very streaky.

[candokaz]

i'm going to double check all the payouts etc. THe machine plays jacks or better but is called Doulbe bonus because the royal pays morte with 5 coins and the st flush pays 60-1 0r 3000 coins with 5 coins i'll get back to you guys...........

[gaming_mouse]

One point is that I'm not sure video poker machines are required to deal the cards randomly, so these calcs may not apply. Not sure if that's the case, but just a thought...

[Terry]

In Nevada, all machines that represent a card game must deal in a way that represents a true deck of cards; no manipulating deck composition, etc. Any manufacturer that sells machines in the state of Nevada must apply that same rule to all the machines they sell anywhere in the world.


candokaz: Double Bonus is a different game altogether than Jacks or Better. Your payouts still look odd for that game, too.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
In Nevada, all machines that represent a card game must deal in a way that represents a true deck of cards; no manipulating deck composition, etc. Any manufacturer that sells machines in the state of Nevada must apply that same rule to all the machines they sell anywhere in the world.


[/ QUOTE ]

okay. interesting... good to know.

i'm assuming there is no such rule for slot machines. that is, slot machines do not have represent randomly spinning wheels, right?

[ThinkQuick]

[ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that 12.86% of the return comes from the royal flush. Without the royal flush, your return will only be 94.4%. You expect to lose about $2k before you hit your first royal flush.


[/ QUOTE ]

I've never really heard it put this way, but that makes sense. Thanks.

[Terry]

[ QUOTE ]
slot machines do not have {to} represent randomly spinning wheels, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. Reel type slots, whether they have physical reels or graphic representations of reels, are controlled by the microprocessor. They use what are called “virtual reels.” The contents of the virtual reels bear little or no resemblance to the physical reels and they cannot be determined by recording the positions in which the reels stop. The physical reels may have 20 stops and the virtual reels have 76 stops, for instance. One must know how the machine is programmed to know what is on the virtual reels. That information is provided to purchasers of the machines.

The outcome of the game is decided by the processor at the instant a coin is inserted or the handle is pulled. The software then displays the outcome on the reels ... leading to occasional cries of “foul” when the reels display a jackpot but the software says “Malfunction.” The software always wins in these cases.

I’m feeling wordy, so here’s some more info you might find interesting.

When video poker was first introduced in the late 1970's the machines got a lot of play at first but it quickly petered out as the players were getting slaughtered. The original machines required two pair or better to win. The manufacturer added the payout for Jacks or better and play picked back up.

Some of those original machines are still around. You can recognize them by the red plastic plaque glued to the front that says “Bet returned on pair of Jacks or better.” Gluing on the plaque was cheaper than replacing the glass that shows the paytable. The screen also looks a bit different, with the word “Hold” being printed in different colors rather the same color lettering seen in modern machines.

Those original machines dealt what were called “ghost cards.” When the cards were dealt, two cards were dealt to each position, the one you saw displayed and a ghost card that would be shown if you discarded from that position. Modern machines deal as if from a real deck, the draw card coming from the top of the deck. It makes no difference whatsoever in play, but it is a pretty commonly asked question.