You guys will like this one [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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beachbum

03-26-2005, 03:44 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG is 35/13/0.77, UTG+2 is 59/29/2.61, BB is 67/26/1.63, MP1 is 24/6/1.46

I had been here about 5 orbits and saw only 3 flops. The other hands I did play, these guys had backed down, until...

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, 4 folds, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, UTG caps, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (20 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks.

I was gonna check-raise the flop, but no one gave me a chance. I should have bet out anyway.

Turn: (10 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (18 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG+2 raises, MP1 folds, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, UTG+2 caps, Hero calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 29 BB

billyjex

03-26-2005, 04:17 AM

I would fold PF the first time it's back to me. Then I would the second time it's back to me.

Same thing on the river.

Though the fact you posted this might mean you won

private joker

03-26-2005, 04:29 AM

I don't like this one.

beachbum

03-26-2005, 04:29 AM

Yeah, these guys were maniacial. UTG+2 would often raise preflop, ram and jam the flop, check-call the turn, and fold the river. He and BB would constantly get into pissing contests. Look at their PFR! I'm not going anywhere on that river with TPGK, especially for that pot size.

beachbum

03-26-2005, 04:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold PF the first time it's back to me. Then I would the second time it's back to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

The first time was a marginal call, the second I didn't think twice about. I'm sure I got a little impatient since I desperately wanted to play a hand with these guys. Their raises and reraises represented strength a very small percentage of the time. They were true action junkies. C'mon I'd seen them raise PF w/ Q6o and reraise A8o.

I especially like BB's fold to a river cap.

Flint{$N}

03-26-2005, 05:37 AM

cold call QJs to an ep raise pf....dunno about that man

Nick Royale

03-26-2005, 06:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
cold call QJs to an ep raise pf....dunno about that man

[/ QUOTE ]
It ain't cold and the 0.5SB hero has put in the pot makes quite a differance. I think it's a marginal call, without the read on UTG+2 I fold, but with the read I don't dislike the call.

EDIT:
On the other hand the reads on BB make me more inclined to fold this hand. It seems to me it will get 3-betted a lot PF and with QJs I don't want that.

Eurotrash

03-26-2005, 06:06 AM

if by "like" you mean "not like" then yes, I like this very much.

the call preflop I would wager is bad; I'd be folding it preflop.

given that, I would lead the flop. if these guys are as maniacal as you say, they'll raise and you can go from there (is my thinking off here?)

the turn seems good, but the raise plus the two cold-callers would worry me. plenty.

river I think I'd be check-calling one bet unimproved. you say "with TP good kicker I'm not going anywhere.." is that a sound idea? I really don't think calling two cold was good at all. I suppose after you do that though you might be obligated to call the next two bets getting 14:1 or so. I may be wrong on that. edit: the more I think about it, I'd probably be folding at both opportunities presented on the river. it just doesn't seem at all like you're good eough times to make those.

overall - i don't really care for this. Your general attitude towards it leads me to believe you actually dragged this pot, but it has a very "my play, brilliant in my opinion" quality to it.

edit: didn't notice hero was SB, previously thought preflop was a cold call.

shant

03-26-2005, 07:41 AM

One time at Commerce I made a runner-runner straight flush with that exact same hand, suits and all, and seeing it reminded me of that so yes, I like this one.

shant

03-26-2005, 07:41 AM

Oh but I think you played this almost all wrong except for calling preflop the second time.

kurosh

03-26-2005, 07:43 AM

If UTG+2 had something retarded, I would look into reporting this as collusion.

adamstewart

03-26-2005, 10:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold PF the first time it's back to me. Then I would the second time it's back to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree.

While the first preflop call is debateable, the second is clearly a call.

Getting nearly 10:1 preflop in an AGGRO-MULTI-WAY pot with QJs is not a bad thing.

Adam

cnfuzzd

03-26-2005, 01:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold PF the first time it's back to me. Then I would the second time it's back to me.

Same thing on the river.

Though the fact you posted this might mean you won

[/ QUOTE ]

The first call was perhaps marginal. The second call is automatic. Getting 9:1 with a hand that plays fairly decently multiway against a bunch of donks is almost a neccesity.

Im tending to agree with you about folding the river when its two back to you, but i think if i had seen these guys play some rivers it might influence my decision one way or the other.

peace

john nickle

beachbum

03-26-2005, 09:02 PM

Ok, this hand is played completely dependent on reads. I don't cc PF with this the first time, or call each river reraise without knowing these guys are drunk, action junkies.

Let's set the stage. Out of the 17 hands UTG+2 PFR'd, he showed down 4. Out of the 14 hands BB PFR'd, he showed down 3. These guys would be AGGRO on the early streets, but not late. Hell, the reason their postflop agg number was so high was because they often folded huge pots for one more bet.

The biggest mistake I made in this hand was not betting the flop. I had seen 3 other flops in ~50 hands, and when I entered those pots (raising or not), these guys backed off. I really didn't expect BB to 3-bet behind me.

River: I'm getting 21:2 on my first cc. After not betting the flop and it checked through, I was very sure my hand was good. These guys played bizarro (ala Seinfeld), betting and raising with crap. The more aggressive they were, the more full of sh*t they were. Going to the river I figured with both of them still in, my hand was good here maybe 1 out of 4 times. So with that read, folding for 2 more bets each time on the river is AWFUL. River raises usually mean something but like I said this whole hand was completely played on reads.

FWIW, UTG+2 had 77. Who knows what BB had, probably something like KTo, seriously. Sometimes you're never folding TP because you know with reasonable accuracy your opponents are bluffing or have been weakly semi-bluff betting, raising, and reraising the whole way.