Easiest hand Ever

[BradleyT]

clearing the party bonus and playing some $1/$2 6 max for a change of pace.

Party Poker 1/2 Omaha/8 (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG posts a blind of $1.
UTG (poster) checks, MP calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, MP calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls, Button calls.

River: (9 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

[bodie]

You flopped a monster and then drove everyone out of the pot by betting it out right away! That's how I see it - I would definitely slow play that hand as long as I could. Everyone is ready to fold anyway when they see two Aces on the flop and they don't have any. At least you had two callers, probably going for low.
Nice hand, though.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone is ready to fold anyway when they see two Aces on the flop and they don't have any. At least you had two callers, probably going for low.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll let others elaborate.

[Spladle Master]

Nice hand.

[Sterling]

I don't think he scared everyone away, only 1 guy folded to the pre-flop raise, way more bets, the only way to get more bets in there would have been to hope for a check-raise, it's limit much better to vote for value. I say good play

[bodie]

After your response I looked more closely at the table - it was online, apparently "6 max". Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something regarding this sort of table since I only play at B&amp;M's - never online, and the tables are usually nine players. I will still say that in a typical B&amp;M nine-player table, with a flop like that almost everyone will fold to a bet unless they still have a valid low draw. If you give them a chance to see another card you might draw some more callers in and build the pot a little more.
Looking more closely at the described hand I can see that he only lost one caller after betting, so it probably didn't make much difference.
I'm surprised you wouldn't think of slow-playing a flop like that.
Also enjoyed your comment: "I'll let others elaborate".

[Sterling]

yes I probably would have checked the flop and hopefully let Just trying to get as much money in the pot as possible.

depends on how loose/tight the table is. A bunch of calling stations (which I find in a lot of omaha, then yeah his play was good on all rounds. (I usually play 9-10 person tables as well) someone almost always bets, so I don't mind checking, and almost everyone calls as well, unless they really didn't hit it.

[Matt Ruff]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone is ready to fold anyway when they see two Aces on the flop and they don't have any.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're forgetting the wheel draws. Post-flop, all the aces are spoken for, and yet there are three people still in the hand besides our hero. It stands to reason that at least one of them has a pretty tasty-looking low draw right now. Anyone holding 24 or 25 can be relied on to call a flop bet; but without a made hand, they might not bet themselves. Since our hero also has the nut low draw and looks good to collect at least three-quarters of the final pot, he's better off betting and sociliting calls from the other low draws than trying to trap and check-raise -- because who, other than a low draw, is even going to hang around long enough to get trapped?

-- M. Ruff

[bodie]

Hi Matt,

In answer to your questions (in my opinion, that is) -
who would call after this flop once it is bet - definitely you would think only low draws. Possibly those who have pocket pairs or straight draws, depending on the quality of the players.
I say that Hero has nothing to lose by slow-playing the hand. If he waits until the turn to bet, the chances are he will bring along more callers, and these are now BB's. I'm not even talking about check-raising, just gathering more callers for the hand.
Again, I'm talking about games with 9 players rather than whatever that online 6 max game is.

[BradleyT]

MP doesn't show [ 7d, 6h, Js, Jd ] two pairs, aces and jacks.
MP doesn't show 7,6,5,3,A for low.
Button doesn't show [ 5c, 5s, 6d, 7h ] a full house, Fives full of aces.
Button doesn't show 7,6,5,3,A for low.

I'm suprised the button didn't do any raising on the turn to at least try and get someone out of the pot.

[Spladle Master]

I'm surprised the button called on the flop.

Wait, no I'm not.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised you wouldn't think of slow-playing a flop like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I WOULD think of slow-playing . . . and then I would slap myself in the face and remember that I'll get called by JJ76 and 7655 if I bet. Checking against opponents like these is sacrificing a lot. Especially when they won't raise if they fill on the turn.

[Matt Ruff]

[ QUOTE ]
I say that Hero has nothing to lose by slow-playing the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

The board is AA3 rainbow, so there are no flush draws to chase. We know nobody else has an ace, but with four players in the hand everybody who doesn't have an ace is going to assume that somebody does, and that they are up against trip aces, or even a made full house, from the start. This will kill the action from pocket pairs, even if they are lucky enough to hit their two-outer on the turn or river.

So the only people who are going to be interested in this flop are folks with low/wheel draws. They *will* call a flop bet, but probably won't bet themselves for fear of being raised by the trip aces that they know is out there. If hero checks the flop, he loses those bets, for IMHO no gain.

[ QUOTE ]
If he waits until the turn to bet, the chances are he will bring along more callers, and these are now BB's.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only real chance hero has to get action on this board is from somebody who makes a wheel and decides to push with it.* But people with wheel draws are going to come along to the turn anyway, so there's no reason to give them a free ride. On the contrary, hero wants to build the pot so the low/wheel draws will be more likely to keep drawing if the turn is a blank -- and so he'll get paid *something* if the turn and river are both blanks.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not even talking about check-raising, just gathering more callers for the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

With this board, there's no one to gather. The most likely group of callers are already there on the flop, and I think it's a mistake not to start extracting money from them right away.

-- M. Ruff

*But even a wheel isn't going to give much action, since the minute hero raises or reraises, the wheel holder will assume he's up against a full house.

[bodie]

Spadlemaster,

I think what it comes down to is actually more the type/quality of opponents and the texture of the game rather than an ironclad rule as to what you would always do.
At least that's how it seems to me.
When you bet or raise on a scary board, you take the chance of everyone folding - when you have a monster hand I think in general you can play it more creatively. If I was at a lively table and especially if the betting was capped before the flop, I would bet this flop too. Otherwise I would want to bring along as many drawing hands or hesitant players into a couple of big bets as I could, letting the other players get confident that maybe no one has a monster. He did lose UTG in the first round if I'm remembering correctly.
Maybe your particular experience is that most players will call a bet on a board like this - mine is the opposite generally speaking.

[bodie]

"They *will* call a flop bet, but probably won't bet themselves for fear of being raised by the trip aces that they know is out there. If hero checks the flop, he loses those bets...."

He doesn't get those bets on the flop, but he will be more likely to get BB's on the turn, and more of them. He isn't taking a chance with this hand, because he has the nuts.

"This will kill the action from pocket pairs, "

But as you can see in the results, a pocket pair of 5's did call all the way to the river - perhaps UTG has a pocket pair too but was scared off by the flop bet.

As I just wrote to Spadlemaster, I think a lot depends on the opponents and the way the table has been playing. I never play online, so that is a forum about which I can't really speak - I play in O8 tournaments and ring games.
Each table is a puzzle to be figured out as to the mannerisms and tendencies of the other players. So a big part of a decision depends on those things, in my opinion.

I do like your concept about building the pot so as to increase the pot odds and motivate the other players to call. As I said in my other post, if the table is lively and the bets have been capped before the flop, that would be a perfect time to bet that flop because it's likely that everyone will call and the pot will get even bigger.

[Matt Ruff]

[ QUOTE ]
"They *will* call a flop bet, but probably won't bet themselves for fear of being raised by the trip aces that they know is out there. If hero checks the flop, he loses those bets...."

He doesn't get those bets on the flop, but he will be more likely to get BB's on the turn, and more of them. He isn't taking a chance with this hand, because he has the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

He has the nut high, but he's not guaranteed the nut low -- a two or a four could cost him half the pot (would have, in this case), and any other low card could cost him a quarter or a third. That in itself is a good reason to bet the flop, but also, if the turn is a blank, the low draws may decide to bail rather than call a big bet. I just think it's better to try for a small bet on the flop and risk driving the low draws out than to be greedy and risk getting nothing, or, worst case, having to split the pot.


[ QUOTE ]
"This will kill the action from pocket pairs, "

But as you can see in the results, a pocket pair of 5's did call all the way to the river

[/ QUOTE ]

They called, but they didn't raise, even after the longshot came in and they filled up. It could be that hero's flop bet made them skittish, but I think that they just didn't want to raise into a board where a better full house was likely.

-- M. Ruff

[Spladle Master]

This is exactly what I was thinking.