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View Full Version : Should I even continue? KK.

Sykes
03-25-2005, 08:29 PM
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls, SB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (13 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB calls $0.75 (All-In), <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero .....?


What do I do?
shadow29
03-25-2005, 08:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What do I do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Post some damn reads.
keikiwai
03-25-2005, 08:37 PM
The 9 doesn't change anything. If you were ahead on the flop you are now. Why stop? Are you worried about AA?

Vilain could have AA, KK, QQ (I don't think JJ due to pf 3 bet, but maybe) add to this list AKs, and a maybe for AKo. How about AQs if we consider AKo, well then add AJs. Basically, I'm saying there's hands you're ahead of, one hand you split with and hands you're behind. I wouldn't give vilain the credit, just go into call mode.

UTG is playing weird, it looks like he's taking advantage of the 0.75 all in.

Yeah, reads are important here....
Shillx
03-25-2005, 08:37 PM
Fold.
Sykes
03-25-2005, 08:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Fold.

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Final answer?
KaiShin
03-25-2005, 08:41 PM
I'd call it down, unless there's something about UTG that tells me I shouldn't.
Shillx
03-25-2005, 08:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Final answer?

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UTG called 4 bets before the flop, 3 bets on the flop and now he is raising the turn when a 9 comes off...yeah it is pretty obvious to see that he has a jack here. Fold.

Brad
Sykes
03-25-2005, 08:51 PM
Ok, shillx, that's what I thought too. Or that he has AA. Turns out UTG had KQo and bullied me out of the pot when he raised the all-in of SB. SB had TT.
FreakDaddy
03-25-2005, 08:57 PM
Reads are vital on dropping this hand. I'd be inclined to say fold as it looks like villian has J, BUT if you've seen villian raise with junk, or play crappy hands out of position, it's an easy call down for me.
keikiwai
03-25-2005, 08:58 PM
That's what I meant by he's taking advantage of the all in. It would explain the checking to raising. Let's say he gives credit to the ALL-IN for best hand.... now he's playing for second best. He knows the all in can't reraise, so he raises, trying to get more money in the pot. Like this he takes down more if he wins, gets people to fold with a bet he would have called anyway, and if he has second best hand is increasing the size of the side pot.
Sykes
03-25-2005, 09:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That's what I meant by he's taking advantage of the all in. It would explain the checking to raising. Let's say he gives credit to the ALL-IN for best hand.... now he's playing for second best. He knows the all in can't reraise, so he raises, trying to get more money in the pot. Like this he takes down more if he wins, gets people to fold with a bet he would have called anyway, and if he has second best hand is increasing the size of the side pot.

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This is the dumbest thing ever. It was heads up after SB is all-in and there is no reason to raise unless your hand is winning.

UTG play looked like collusion in my eyes.
KaiShin
03-25-2005, 09:33 PM
There was a reason to raise: it improved UTG's hand.

Think about this for a minute. If SB has the best hand, and you have the second best hand, you've invested 3.5BB in a pot that you cannot win. Now, if there was someone hanging around with a third best hand, and you could get back the original bets you've lost, wouldn't you? Now reverse the situation, and lets say you could push someone off a better hand thereby improving your chances of winning the whole thing. Wouldn't you?
Mr. Zero
03-25-2005, 09:34 PM
I wish you hadn't posted the results so soon, as it taints my thinking a bit. Having said that, I still think I call down here. Assuming UTG puts in another bet on the river, it will take 2.75 BB to get to showdown on a 17.75 BB pot. I play .25/.5 at Pokerroom, so I'll defer to anyone who says differently, but I think I'm good here more than 1 in 6 against a typical non-thinking opponent.
Sykes
03-25-2005, 09:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
There was a reason to raise: it improved UTG's hand.

Think about this for a minute. If SB has the best hand, and you have the second best hand, you've invested 3.5BB in a pot that you cannot win. Now, if there was someone hanging around with a third best hand, and you could get back the original bets you've lost, wouldn't you? Now reverse the situation, and lets say you could push someone off a better hand thereby improving your chances of winning the whole thing. Wouldn't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is complete bullshit. This only works if you know that SB does NOT have a J or AA.