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brizzypare
03-25-2005, 01:32 PM
$50 sng

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t915)
Button (t930)
SB (t880)
BB (t2250)
UTG (t1105)
UTG+1 (t545)
MP1 (t500)
MP2 (t2020)
MP3 (t855)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t120</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls t105, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 folds.

Flop: (t300) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t55</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ???</font>

What do you usually do here? I think the best move is to raise to t150 and see what he does. It could just be a post oak bluff, but he could have a queen or a complete monster. Regardless, I have to figure out if I'm ahead. What do you do here?

Voltron87
03-25-2005, 02:22 PM
It's such a small bet I might just call it with position. If he checks the turn, check and call the river. If he bets you fold.

harmonjh
03-25-2005, 02:22 PM
I think a raise is the correct play. The flop bet is pathetic, could be a baby pair in the hole. I've never played a 50 SNG, so not sure about the caliber of player.

Voltron87
03-25-2005, 02:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think a raise is the correct play. The flop bet is pathetic, could be a baby pair in the hole. I've never played a 50 SNG, so not sure about the caliber of player.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that it is a 50 doesn't rule out that he might have nothing.

Raiser
03-25-2005, 02:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
It's such a small bet I might just call it with position. If he checks the turn, check and call the river. If he bets you fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this line.

t55 isn't a lot. You can call here without hurting yourself. If the turn is a blank and he bets again, then re-evaluate. Basically you are trying to see if he is willing to fire 2 (albeit, pathetically small) bullets. And, you might get lucky and spike your set.

I think the combination of: (1) you might be ahead, (2) he might be making a play on you, and (3) the very small chance that you make your set makes calling a good play here.

Voltron87
03-25-2005, 02:37 PM
The only way I would not berate someone for breaking my board domination (I had all the last replies on the first page) is if they were commenting on how beautiful my line was. nh.

pooh74
03-25-2005, 02:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think a raise is the correct play. The flop bet is pathetic, could be a baby pair in the hole. I've never played a 50 SNG, so not sure about the caliber of player.

[/ QUOTE ]


The fact that it is a 50 doesn't rule out that he might have nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree...this may be a leak for me, but for this flop with JJ, I am raising...if he comes back over I fold...if he bets on the turn, I either call (if its a similar smallish bet, depening on the card that came) or fold. (I most likely fold).

These size bets usually mean they have nothing, or real big strength (trying to entice a raise). If the latter, then a raise will at least let you know where u stand and I think it ends up being nothing most of the time to make raising on your part +EV in the long run.

say 20% of the time its a minbet with a monster, you raise his 50 to 150, that 1 time out of 5 you have to fold leaves you +EV...of course I made up that % but in my experience it seems semi accurate.

Furthermore, by just calling, you are allowing 1. him to draw, 2. leaking more chips on the next cards when you couldev found out more definitively where u stood on the flop.

p

Voltron87
03-25-2005, 02:41 PM
I don't see any benefit to raising. If you have him beat, how does raising beat calling?

pooh74
03-25-2005, 02:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see any benefit to raising. If you have him beat, how does raising beat calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I explained why above...but for obvious reasons. If you have him beat, then why not extract more money out of him? If you have him beat, why let him draw? If you're beat, then why not raise now, fold if you have to, instead of facing larger bets down the hand?

rickr
03-25-2005, 03:00 PM
I'm betting any draw there if I'm villian. It's a blocking/information bet on the flop. Flat calling allows villian to dictate the cost to draw. Raising will let you know where you are = good. Flat calling allows good odds for drawing hands, and yours is a made hand, not a drawing hand = bad. If you are playing JJ for set value, why not follow the no set, no bet rule? Find out now where you stand and don't give up control of the hand.

Later,
Rick

brizzypare
03-25-2005, 08:59 PM
I'm still not quite sure what the best play is. If I intend to call this flop bet, check the turn, and call a river bet, that seems dangerous and puts me on the defensive. By just calling on the flop, I'm still potentially risking at least t150 (calling this bet, plus at least another t100 on the river), unless he fires again on the turn, then I fold, still not knowing where I stand.

If I make the t150 raise, it puts me back in the drivers seat, and I'm able to gain at least SOME information from him. If he moves in, I fold. If he has nothing, I win. The problem with raising is if he calls, I'm still not sure about that queen. I'd then have to most likely fire again on fourth street and check fifth street.

pooh74
03-25-2005, 09:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with raising is if he calls, I'm still not sure about that queen. I'd then have to most likely fire again on fourth street and check fifth street.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you could check behind him on the turn (you have position remember?) and see what he does on 5th.

brizzypare
03-25-2005, 10:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with raising is if he calls, I'm still not sure about that queen. I'd then have to most likely fire again on fourth street and check fifth street.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you could check behind him on the turn (you have position remember?) and see what he does on 5th.

[/ QUOTE ]


But then I risk giving him a completely free card if he's on a flush draw. Should I take that risk regardless?

lastchance
03-25-2005, 11:11 PM
Giving a free card to the flush draw is nowhere near as important as saving chips when you're beat and making sure you're ahead right now, IMHO.

I love raising the flop to t200, checking the turn, folding if he bets, and calling a very small bet on the river, or maybe a very large one, if it's a bluff.

curtains
03-25-2005, 11:51 PM
I think that both calling and raising the flop are reasonable options. I like raising to about 175-200, it should be enough if they don't have anything.

Calling is okay, but it might encourage your opponent to bluff again, assuming that you don't have anything due to your call on the flop. At this point it'll be much harder for you to call. Raising immediately makes it much harder for your opponent to get creative.

The Yugoslavian
03-25-2005, 11:57 PM
I'm pretty sure other hands have fun too...but....according to 2+2, that simply isn't so:

Fun #1 (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=singletable&amp;Number=656983&amp; Forum=,f22,&amp;Words=fun&amp;Searchpage=1&amp;Limit=100&amp;Main= 656983&amp;Search=true&amp;where=sub&amp;Name=&amp;daterange=1&amp;new erval=&amp;newertype=w&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bodyprev=# Post656983)
fun #2 (also OP) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=singletable&amp;Number=1933456 &amp;Forum=f22&amp;Words=fun&amp;Searchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;Main=19 33456&amp;Search=true&amp;where=sub&amp;Name=&amp;daterange=1&amp;newe rval=1&amp;newertype=y&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bodyprev=# Post1933456)

Yugoslav