More than a leak - how do I give up?

[Cerril]

I'm just flushing money from somewhere. It's only 16k hands but everything points to a massive leak. A bit part is seeing too many showdowns or more precisely the wrong ones. I'm only at a small negative overall but I'm not ending sessions repeatedly going 'I owned these guys, but have had bad luck lately.'

Anyway, to some specific questions while I examine my game. I feel like I lose 1.5-2.5BB a lot of the time in a situation that goes like this. High cards, raise, get a cold caller in CO/Button, and one of the blinds calls. Reads aren't highly exploitable in any direction except that they're too loose, AF between 1-3. No pair no draw will fold, a tendency to bet when checked to last to act, and any draw that can beat top pair will remain, some cases are capable of being tricky. Three to the flop which gives me no help, though I've got at least one over. Checked to me, I bet, called two ways. Checked to me on the turn.

Now I'm leaving out a lot here that might or might not be pertinent. The board might or might not be coordinated. I might have two unders to an ace or only one over to a king, or I might have AK/AQ on a small board. I might have a gutshot. I can be close to certain that if I check here it'll either be bet behind me (usually) or by the blind on the river (occasionally). I'm leaving it out partially because I'm curious if these things -are- pertinent or if I'm looking at a section of hands that are terrible enough to not even bother holding up the aggression

Variations on this occur if I'm holding absolutely nothing on the button and it's checked to me on the turn after continuing to be aggressive on the flop.

This is one of those areas where I have trouble gaguing the correct aggression - when I've got something it's easy to bet out but when I have nothing at what point do I surrender to two hands that probably have me beat between them. The 'bet flop, bet turn, check behind on river with Ace high' has definitely been the cause of some of my overaggression.

[Danenania]

I usually keep pounding on the turn unless I see a reason not to. Even some of the less awful players in these games love to peel off cards.

[Cerril]

Are you hoping for a fold, or a catch, or just figuring the combination of the two is gives you the equity? I'm assuming even AK-high folds to a raise or checkraise here? What if you do have a legitimate high card hand (A-J or better) and get called here by the LP player but not the EP, what do you do for a river blank - assume that your opponent will usually bet when checked to and is usually ahead of you? check/call, check/fold, or bet?

Does having king high change things, knowing that you're behing ace-high as well as any pair? If not, what about queen high?

[Danenania]

Well, we're in super abstract territory here, but I'll try.

I like to keep pounding because usually I feel the combination of often having the best hand with A-high, fold equity, and outs justify it in many situations. If I have K or Q high instead of A high the best hand aspect is obviously negated so you would need better fold equity/outs to justify betting as a semi-bluff.

I generally fold to a raise or checkraise, yes, but certainly not always. Remember you usually aren't too far off from the odds you need to hit a 6 outer on the river anyhow so if there's a decent chance the raiser is bluffing then it's good to call down. Calling down bluffs is also very good for image.

The river just requires some handreading to figure out what kind of hands could have stayed around, which you beat, and which might bluff. If the board was very dry then anyone who is still around probably has a pair. Very coordinated and you might be facing a missed draw that will bluff. If I have been pounding with a K or Q high hand sometimes I myself will fire a 3rd barrel hoping for a fold from a slightly better hand. Sometimes you can value bet with AK. There are so many factors to consider.

Hope that helps a bit. Remember that I've been playing 10/20 and 15/30 my last 80k hands so my advice might be a bit out of touch with the 5/10 game.

[Girchuck]

One thing,
If these players are predictable like that, and will almost always bet after you check on turn, I will start checking a lot on turn with non-obvious strong hands and either check-raise the turn (most of the time), stop-n-go on the river or check-raise the river. See if they adjust.
Against an A, if you don't have one, maybe you need to check-fold the flop once in a while, especially, if Button cold-called behind. If they call with pairs and draws a lot, betting the turn and checking behind on the river with big ace high isn't bad, if there are draws on board. If there are no draws, take the free card on the turn sometimes.

[cartman]

Unless you are last to act, I think firing the turn vs two opponents who called the flop is usually a mistake (an exception might be if the flop was all low and an A or K hit on the turn). I think you will get called by at least one of them a big majority of the time. If you think the opponent behind you will autobet if you check the turn, then maybe you should consider calling him if the first opponent folds. If you are last to act, I am more inclined to bet and take a free showdown. My aggression numbers are too low though, so maybe this is a leak of mine (not firing again on the turn vs two opponents). Can anyone less apt to wear a skirt weigh in?

Cartman