JJ call down

[mr pink]

dealt J /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif in mp1

utg folds, utg+1 limps, 1 fold, i raise, folded to the bb who call, limper calls.

flop: 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 players - 6.5 sbs

bb bets, limper folds, i call.

turn: 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif - 2 players - 4.25 bbs

bb bets, i call.

river: T /images/graemlins/club.gif - 2 players - 6.25 bbs

he bets, i call.

standard?

[bungyrocks]

raise the flop. looks like he's betting a flush or str8 draw, or even middle pair, or 66-99. If he had the Ace wouldnt he check raise the flop, or even wait until the turn - since you were the preflop raiser it is fairly likely you will bet and he knows this.
the hand plays differently from here. reads would help.

[mr pink]

villain was pretty average, nothing stood out in the few orbits i played with him.

i don't know if he'd have check/raised me with just a weak ace. but yeah, he would definitely would be betting a flush draw here, or maybe a smaller pocket pair. i think i played this hand like a tool.

i think a better line would be to raise the flop, bet the turn and take the free showdown. if he 3-bets the flop, it's an easy fold. and if he leads at the turn or river, i think i can muck it.

[einbert]

Against a LAG this is fine.

Against an unknown, I'm going to raise the flop, bet the turn, and take a free showdown. All the while folding to a reraise.

[me454555]

Why are you raising the flop? Your going to either get him to toss a hand your beating that has few outs or your going to get an A to call you down.

Either fold the flop b/c you believe he has an ace or just call down to allow him to bluff off his $$

[einbert]

i know it's way ahead way behind but this way we save a SB if he has a weak ace, and if he has a strong ace he'll reraise us and we save 1.5BBs.

I would think differently if we had a stronger hand, say a weak ace.

But you're right, (like I said) against a lag who will bluff all the way down frequently calling down is better.

[shark6]

Raise the flop, call a 3-bet. Then check/fold turn. River depends. That guy would bet into you on the flop with a whole heck of a lot of hands you beat, that is why we raise.

Also, raising the flop allows the Hero to get away cheaply if he is beat without having to invest another 2BB. But still gets him the pot if he is ahead.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop, call a 3-bet. Then check/fold turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you do this? What are you drawing to? You don't have the Jd even.

[shark6]

I figure the villian will either reraise or lead the turn if Here is beat.

Otherwise, we're ahead. I'd hate to get pushed off JJ by a guy on a flush draw.

[bungyrocks]

why would you only charge him the minimum to draw to a flush or a straight? its a clear raise IMHO

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
I figure the villian will either reraise or lead the turn if Here is beat.

Otherwise, we're ahead. I'd hate to get pushed off JJ by a guy on a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

His point was that calling the 3 bet with the intention of folding to a non-J turn is bad. You are getting nowhere near the odds, and if you are 3-bet, you are being lead into a very large % of the time.

[shark6]

Call the 3-bet because you're getting enough implied odds to catch another J.

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
Call the 3-bet because you're getting enough implied odds to catch another J.

[/ QUOTE ]

he's getting 11.5-1 to chase a two outter...he's not making that up with a J.