Flush Board and Im bet into

[maranello11]

1-2 NL Im on the button with K /images/graemlins/club.gif10 /images/graemlins/club.gif Villian raises to 7. He is a very good player, knows I know he will try to make a move, but he knows I will try to make a move as well. I call, 2 to the flop. Flop Q? 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif ? /images/graemlins/club.gif The third card is really not important, Villian bets 15, I call
Turn another /images/graemlins/club.gif
I think for a bit and bet 20, player knows me well, I know him well, I think. He calls 20, and reraises 40 more, whats my move. What does he have.

[NorCalJosh]

stack sizes? you have him beat, so you flat call and check/call the river, tis the only way you'll make money.

[maranello11]

I have 120 left in front of me he has me covered by about $10. You put him on a set or 2 pair, I dont think he is stealing now.

[NorCalJosh]

you just said that 1) he was capable of making a move and 2) knows that you're capable of making a move, and then you tell me that for some reason he couldnt be trying to pull a move on you with this hand?

its hard to figure out if he could have hit a set or two pair when i dont know where he's sitting at the table, so i dont know what range of hands he could be on, and i only know 2 out of the 4 cards that were on the board.

if he's capable of making a move, and knows your capable of making a move, he should be very capable of thinking that you're trying to pick up an easy pot with the third club scare card, and making a bluff reraise to try and get you to fold under the pressure.

if thats the case, reraising him here won't get you any money.

check/calling might not be the best route to go, but it hink its the only chance you have of getting any money on the river, assuming your hand is good.

[maranello11]

I know what you are saying, he is on my right, he is possible of drawing with the A /images/graemlins/club.gif

[NorCalJosh]

so you got check raised on the turn? i got a little confused in the post when you acted first on the turn, i had that in my head not your comment about being on the button.

regardless, i think you're currently ahead and i would call that bet, and pray that he fires another roudn on the river.

i think you have to follow this through to the end, just wince if the board pairs or a 4th club comes.

[momo24]

Is calling a 3.5xBB preflop raise with KT ever the right play here? I don't think I've ever had such a good read on someone that I'm not mucking here. And if I were that confident of my read, shouldn't I reraise to around $20?

[maranello11]

I feel it is, I was heads up and I have a good style of play for this game. Well, for my hand when he checked the turn I bet 20 and he re-raised, I re-raised all-in and he insta-called, I knew it right there the nut flush, he didnt even have to show it. What can you do, the sad thing is I almost thought about laying it down, with the cards facing up. "You lay down a monster"

[NorCalJosh]

yeah, i figured you wouldnt be posting this hand without him having the nut flush.

tough hand to play, tough hand to lay down. 9 outta 10 times you're ahead, you ran into the 1 time.

i probably would have lost my stack either way, i might have been able to make a lay down to an all in bet on the river, if i had a good read on the player. but reraising all in like that, only time you ever get called is when you're beat, if you're playing a decent player.

[Yeknom58]

Don't like the preflop call at all.

I probably raise the flop and hope to take it down right there...if you call and hit on the turn you probably don't get paid off and if you miss you're facing a big turn bet you can't call most of the time.

[Yeknom58]

"I feel it is, I was heads up and I have a good style of play for this game."

You don't know it's going to be heads up? By calling you're just asking one of the blinds to come along for the ride.

[maranello11]

If you read my first post the type of player that made the raise could come in with any resonable hand and if I re-raise he would just call and try to push me off of it. The same being true for me. We both play very close in style and will usually try to take down pots when one of us is not in, on a bluff against the other players. I dont know, I didnt want to reraise because the big blinds where left to play and both at the time are some what tight players. It sucked, oh well. I got my money back against him later on when you moved all-in against me open-ended and my QQ held up

[Yeknom58]

Dude you're missing the point. The cold call was bad againsts a reasonable player end of story.

[NorCalJosh]

If the poster is a solid post flop player, whats wrong with the preflop call here? for the sake of the argument lets assume he's capable of folding kings facing a bet and a raise, or two big bets... its a good hand to shift it up with everyonce in a while i'd think...

i agree that raising the flop definately would seem to be the better play, but in this particular situation, i think the other guy still ends up with his stack everytime things go like that.

[sawseech]

call and lead the river for 60, fold to any raise