i can't fold overpairs

[schwza]

i'm breaking into full ring after playing almost exclusively 6-max. don't remember any reads.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

CO ($13)
Button ($50)
<font color="#C00000">SB ($59.65)</font>
<font color="#C00000">BB ($20)</font>
UTG ($43.1)
UTG+1 ($190)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($83.7)</font>
MP2 ($43.45)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls $2.25, BB calls $2, UTG calls $2.

Flop: ($10) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $5</font>, BB calls $5, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $18</font>, SB calls $13, BB calls $12.50 (All-In).

Turn: ($63.50) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $39.15 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $39.15.

[ZBTHorton]

I know you lost the hand, but I play it the same way. =)

[MikeL]

I hope that SB hit his set, otherwise he is an idiot thinking that the half-pot bet would put fear into the rest in the hand and keep you from re-raising back at him.

The fact that he did NOT pop you back tells me he probably did NOT have a set, but was drawing to the straight. You think he knew you'd pay him off if he hit? If so, that adds to his implied odds, I'd think.

I usually see the 1/2 pot bet as a lame attempt to see a cheap card without resorting to the minimum bet (which clearly screams weakness).

And you probably could have saved that last $40.

MikeL.

[soah]

Why did you raise half pot on the flop? You are pretty much committed after that, because he'll call that size of a raise with nearly anything that he bet with. You've increased the pot size quite a bit and still don't know where you're at. If your goal is to get him pot-committed with weaker hands, then your plan worked (except that apparently he didn't have the weaker hand you expected this time). If your plan was something different, then I don't understand.

[MikeL]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you raise half pot on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but our Hero did not bet 1/2 the pot:

[ QUOTE ]
SB bets $5, BB calls $5, UTG folds, Hero raises to $18

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot had 10 in it at the flop, SB bet 1/2 pot, BB called putting the pot at 20. Our hero bet 18.

MikeL.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you raise half pot on the flop? You are pretty much committed after that, because he'll call that size of a raise with nearly anything that he bet with. You've increased the pot size quite a bit and still don't know where you're at. If your goal is to get him pot-committed with weaker hands, then your plan worked (except that apparently he didn't have the weaker hand you expected this time). If your plan was something different, then I don't understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

my thinking was something like "i'm definitely not folding. i'm not going to call, b/c then if he bets the next street i'll have no idea where i am, and i won't want to fold, but a call will likely PC me and if i raise then i'm stacking off anyway. so i raise."

then i figured the only draws out where hands like T9 or 78, so i didn't really need a big raise. my plan would have been to check behind on the turn and make a decision on the river, had i gotten there.

when villain pushed, i talked myself into a call even though villain had just pushed into an empty side pot. it was only 40 to win 140 total, so i only had to win (the whole thing) 1/3.5. i figured there was a good enough chance that villain was overplaying TP.

villain (SB) actually had JJ, and i don't remember what the all-in guy had. but after the hand i realized that i did what everyone says not to do, which is to commit 120x bb's with an unimproved overpair (and not even AA/KK, and after a villain had pushed into an empty side pot). but how else do you play it? raise the flop but fold the turn? calling the flop and folding the turn sounds way too weak.

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why did you raise half pot on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but our Hero did not bet 1/2 the pot:

[ QUOTE ]
SB bets $5, BB calls $5, UTG folds, Hero raises to $18

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot had 10 in it at the flop, SB bet 1/2 pot, BB called putting the pot at 20. Our hero bet 18.

MikeL.

[/ QUOTE ]

you are reading it wrong.

our hero called the $5 bet, making the pot $25, then only raised a miniscule $13 more.

[soah]

I don't think there's really any way that you could confidently fold this hand. Yes, the stacks are 120x, but the pot was already 20x on the flop and you have a short stack throwing away what appears to be dead money. Obviously as more and more money goes into the pot you will realize it is less and less likely that you have the best hand.... but as the pot gets bigger and bigger, you have to be more and even more certain that you've lost in order to fold.

[edge]

I raise a bit more on the flop, but I'm going to have to call a reraise push on the flop or get it in on the turn with these stacks. There isn't enough money to avoid it here.