Why do I cry off at the river [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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theblitz

03-24-2005, 04:46 AM

I find quite often that after betting through the hand I will check behind rather than bet back at a checker. This is even in cases where I know I would have called a bet.
I am sure I am losing money because of this and can't seem to figure out why I do this.
Anyone else have/had this problem?

I know that Sklansky says in TOP that you should never bet a hand that would only be called if it is beaten but many of these hands are not in that category.

Following is an example (I know I should have probably raised pre-flop - that's not the issue):

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($40.65)
Hero ($105.1)
CO ($45.75)
Button ($97.18)
SB ($41)
BB ($18.07)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, Hero calls $0.50, 2 folds, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.50) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $1, Hero raises to $3, SB folds, BB calls $2.

Turn: ($7.50) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets $1, Hero raises to $6, BB calls $5.

River: ($19.50) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $19.50

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad Qs (two pair, aces and queens).
BB has 7c As (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $19.50. 

I was fairly sure the villian didn't have the straight. The play just didn't match. Also, if the villian had the AK I would have expected a raise pre-flop.

So, why do I scare off?
Is this a common problem or just mine?

pittisit

03-24-2005, 05:38 AM

villians turn action seems like a draw or a poor attemp to get to a showdown with a weak ace. i think this is a pretty easy value bet on river...$5? you probably wouldve heard from any better hand on the turn or a river bet into you.

zaxx19

03-24-2005, 05:44 AM

Just illogical...

you were so afraid of the made straight yu raised to 6 on the turn instead of just calling 1 and drawing at a FH...

Then yu dont bet the river?

If he had a straight yu would have been reraised on the turn or seen a huge bet at the river.

HOW MUCH CHECK RAISING ON THE RIVER DO YOU EXPERIENCE AT THESE LEVELS? BC ITS QUITE A RARITY TO ME.

RainFall

03-24-2005, 07:13 AM

good points zaxx

theblitz

03-24-2005, 07:18 AM

I think it is the check-raise I am normally scared of.
As you say, this is not common at this level so I should probably ignore it except if I have specific stats on the player.

edge

03-24-2005, 10:15 AM

Raise preflop, bet at least half-pot on the river. He will probably pay you off with AJ, AT, A9, or since this is 0.25/0.50, any A and maybe a few K's.

swolfe

03-24-2005, 11:23 AM

raise more both on the flop and the turn...your turn raise isn't even to the pot.

pho75

03-24-2005, 12:11 PM

Villian is looking at a $20 pot with only $8 left. If he had the straight you would think he would bet it every time, expecting you to call with your 3.5 to 1 odds.

However, if it were me in the hand, I would have to say I would check behind too. I would be thinking. "well, with the exception on the river, everything he's done sure looks like he is slowplaying the straight. If he has it I'll feel bad, but if I loose eight MORE dollars I'll feel really bad."

I don't know what the right play is here. What I do know is that it shouldn't be based on how I will FEEL later.

theblitz

03-24-2005, 01:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop

[/ QUOTE ]
Normally I do but once in a while I like to confuse them a bit.

etgryphon

03-24-2005, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What I do know is that it shouldn't be based on how I will FEEL later.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent Advice...Just remember if the turn didn't scare you into no betting the river card doesn't mean anything. So it it was good enough to bet the turn then it will be good enough the bet the river.

-Gryph

theblitz

03-24-2005, 01:38 PM

One of the things that scared me was that I didn't expect him to call the turn if he didn't have the straight. I assumed he didn't and was suprised when I was called.
If I had been in his position with the straight I might very well have played like that - calling the turn and then checking in order to get the opponent to bet back.