Fold to this C/R?? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Alexthegreat

03-24-2005, 02:42 AM

I have played just one orbit, villian has been tight over the last 8 hands....

I don't think he is on a draw here, and I couldn't think of anything that I beat that he would checkraise, but I'm just wondering if I should just call down the first time an unkown does this...?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Nick C

03-24-2005, 03:05 AM

I usually call these down, expecting to lose.

My play with overpairs could use improvement, though, I think.

All the same, sometimes you will be shown 88 and 99 and A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif and so forth. Plus, you do have a decent amount out outs against, say, 76s.

Edit: Hmm. I will admit, that in this particular case, you have to consider that your flop 3-bet did show a lot of strength. Given that, folding may be prudent, although I'd probably at least see the river, since your opponent could just have two pair.

Alexthegreat

03-24-2005, 03:15 AM

My thoughts were that he would just lead the turn with 88 and 99....He seemed like a tight player so far, but that was only a handful of deals, so maybe I should have called down....

There is no way I'm checking behind on the turn right??

Nick C

03-24-2005, 03:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way I'm checking behind on the turn right??

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this idea much. When you're ahead, your opponent will, on average, have far more outs than you have when you're behind. I think you really need to know your opponent will frequently bluff a missed draw on the river to make checking behind on the turn a good choice.

All the same, that plan might be better than betting, calling a checkraise, and then paying off on the river, like I probably would.

gaming_mouse

03-24-2005, 03:29 AM

Nice laydown.

Alexthegreat

03-24-2005, 03:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nice laydown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks...you play it the same I assume??

gaming_mouse

03-24-2005, 04:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nice laydown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks...you play it the same I assume??

[/ QUOTE ]

yep.

jb9

03-24-2005, 10:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
but I'm just wondering if I should just call down the first time an unknown does this...?

[/ QUOTE ]

I call this down knowing I might be behind partly because I have no read and partly because I haven't been at the table long (I don't like giving the early impression that I'll give up a hand I liked enough to 3 bet on the flop to a turn check raise).

If he has a set or straight, so be it, but without a read, I'm not folding an overpair here. (And if he has 2 pair, I have outs.)

Perhaps that's a mistake, but if you think it is, would you fold AA or KK here?

Jeffage

03-24-2005, 12:36 PM

You're likely beaten, but perhaps not. I wouldn't fold this headsup with no read (particularly ONLINE where people are apt to make wild plays). He limped after one limper...how tight is he...would he muck 55, 66, 77 in this spot b/c not enough people limped yet? If he's tight, 89 is less of a possibility (maybe he'd play it suited). I would call him bc he could have a big draw/pair hand (9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, A /images/graemlins/heart.gif10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif). H could have say 99 or just a flush draw. You're likely against a set, but there is enough chance you're not that I'd look him up.

Jeff

billyjex

03-24-2005, 01:16 PM

I don't think I fold this either, but I have trouble letting go of these hands. But with no read, I can't.

Hero is getting better than 6 to 1 to call down. If he's behind two pair, he has counterfeit outs. If he's behind a set, he has 2 outs. He also could be ahead to a strong draw or just a tricky play from someone putting him on AK.

I wish I was more mathematically inclined to make an assessment of the situation but my gut tells me to call down.

ptmusic

03-24-2005, 02:00 PM

I think an argument could be made to fold the flop! You could have already been drawing dead, there were others still to act, and straight AND flush draw possibilities, so it's likely you're jacks won't hold up.

3-betting ain't a bad option on the flop either, but I'd call him down if that's the move.

-ptmusic

billyjex

03-24-2005, 02:12 PM

Folding this flop is criminal. 3-betting is essential.

Fat Nicky

03-24-2005, 02:23 PM

i ain't foldin.

sinfulslick18

03-24-2005, 02:44 PM

i would not fold i would go into a call down with an overpair.

-sinful

Reprocess

03-24-2005, 06:31 PM

Alexthegreat

03-24-2005, 06:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think an argument could be made to fold the flop! You could have already been drawing dead, there were others still to act, and straight AND flush draw possibilities, so it's likely you're jacks won't hold up.

3-betting ain't a bad option on the flop either, but I'd call him down if that's the move.

-ptmusic

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding this flop would be terrible...A turn check-raise is a much stronger move than a flop raise...3-betting the flop to clean out any stupid draws that might hang around is essential...

It sounds like calling down is the consensus though...