Tony G is sitting across from you, running his mouth. What do you do?

[TStoneMBD]

I really, really hate this guy. With every inch of my being. How would you handle him if he was sitting across from you in a WPT event, making a mockery out of the game?

The problem with these trashtalking idiots is that they think its ok because they are just creating a mind game. Well, it's not. For one, if you start trash talking back to these idiots, they immediately take it personally and go on hypertilt. They use their mouths to mark their territory, and show dominance. Fighting back only leads to a severe escalation of greater fighting.

So, do you take this guy on head to head, or do you let him ride you? If you fight back, you would potentially diminish your own name, as you would be stooping to his level, but fighting back will probably cause him to tilt, while you can keep a level head.

I'm starting to think that the best way to handle this situation is to take 1 minute for every action. This should drive him absolutely insane, and will be a good way to retaliate without showing distaste.

[imported_CaseClosed326]

I like that plan. Surindar (sp) did a great job of riding him out. I don't know if I could handle playing a guy like that. I am with you though, I would be happy to never see this guy on TV ever again.

[ononimo]

i chose: D - other

i'd have a tough time sitting stoically like Surindar did because being silent goes against my nature. i'd try to add levity to the situation by "playfully" patronizing the trash-talker and feeding (in an obviously facetious manner) their ego. if that didn't improve the situation, i'd probably go the silent route if i couldn't think of something else.

a direct "fight fire with fire" approach would be my least preferred option because that's not my personality.

[trying2learn]

taking him off tv is not the answer. i can say this easier, admittadly since i've never sat with him...but it makes for good tv. people tune in to watch a villian just as much - if not more - than a hero.

as to how to play him? as much as i would have trouble with it...the stall would def do it...make him put the clock on you every time...this would drive him crazy i would guess.

[Sponger15SB]

If we are at a table with no cameras and we are sitting next to each other, I whisper to him I'm going to murder his family if he doesn't shut the [censored] up.

[Kevmath]

For those interested in a "live report" from the Grand Prix final table, head over to this link. (http://www.pokerineurope.com/livereport/index.php?livereportid=5&page=1)

Kevin...

[zaxx19]

D. I join in playfully...

[in my trashiest Aulstralian accent]

"Tony you look like youve been eating some vegimite since the last time you were on t.v. you must be 2.........fifty...."

"Look 2 Kings the butchers of Baghdad mate...."

When he inevitably claims to be the worlds top player..

" you are easily the 2nd best foreign born Aulstralian player after Mel Judah...Ill give you that .."

[TStoneMBD]

taking him off the tv is DEFINITELY the answer. ratings nothing, its bad for poker and needs to be dealt with.

[johnnybeef]

put on headphones, he will stop if he realizes that no one is listening.

[TStoneMBD]

wow. brilliant idea /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[DesertCat]

Slam a couple beers, jump up on the table and unzip to give him the old golden shower, mate. Then humbly accept the audience's adulation.

[PugUgly]

Me personally, I'd do really nasty stuff. I'd ask him if he ever knew his father, and profess an assumption that he must have left the family when he was young, because it's obvious the 'tard never had a role model in his life. "Oh, you DID have a dad? No mother then, right? Nobody who ever taught you when to just STFU?"

I don't know or care to know him, but if he has a kid, I'd go that angle too. "You think you're great television, right? Do you feel that your kids respect you? Oh, they don't. Your daughter told me last night..."

Fight fire with fire. Those pricks need to get the hell off my television.

[sweetjazz]

I don't see that getting into a fight with him is going to put him on tilt. It may induce him to pay more attention to you to try to get you. I'm willing to take the abuse, as I'd rather concentrate on playing my top game.

You have to realize that his all-in or nothing strategy isn't that bad, especially given that he's not that good of a player to begin with (from what I can tell). He's basically forcing you to gamble, so you have to pick your spots and go for it.

Earlier on, you want to take of his extra aggression, and I'd be a bit more willing to risk giving free cards in the hopes of trapping him for a large amount if I flop a strong hand that isn't too vulnerable.

As long as he's jabbering, I don't think he's concentrating on making good poker plays. I'd try to observe him somewhat, but I'd expect him to be rather erratic. I'd look to play basic ABC poker, which includes adjusting for his aggressive style.

The fact that I think the guy is a jerk isn't particularly relevant to me while I am at the poker table.

[ClaytonN]

The correct answer is to smile, casually accept, and play your own game.

[B Mando]

I cant believe Suriender(sp?) didnt talk [censored] when he won. I would have gone off on that guy after I won...I would have really tried to make him feel like shyte. I would rub it in his face soo much. I really like the way Suriender carried himself throughout the tournament though.

[Grisgra]

He did slam those jacks down pretty hard, and that whole "I think I'll call based on just this card (the ace)" was pretty sweet.

But yeah, I would have shaken his hand and said "Thank you for your atrociously bad play, it made your babbling all worthwhile".

[FrankLu99]

I think I saw one of the dealers getting annoyed. It looked like the redheaded female dealer rolled her eyes when Tony G was yapping it up when it got 2 or 3 handed. Did anyone else catch that?

[JaBlue]

Yeah, I'm sure he's going to tilt if you come back at him. ...

[ilya]

I love Tony G, I was really rooting for him to win in Paris. Has he made any other TV final tables? I want to watch more of him.

As far as dealing with him...I would try to talk back but if it looked like it wasn't working I would probably just go into cocoon mode and try to ignore him.

I think his behavior is legitimate strategy. Plus he makes TV poker like 10 times more fun to watch. I mean, come on, would you rather watch Surindar and some other sullen pro twitch their shoulders at each other?

[byronkincaid]

[ QUOTE ]
The correct answer is to smile, casually accept, and play your own game.

[/ QUOTE ]


I luckily won a sat to an event that Tony G played in last year. It was one of these 6 player sng events where you have to win your table to go through to the next round. I won my round and I was keen to watch all the other rounds to check out how the other winners played. We could sit in the green room watching a live feed and we could see all the hole cards and hear what was being said etc.

So I go to watch Tony's round and all I know about this guy is what I saw on the WPT when Howard wouldn't shake his hand and I was pretty much asking myself this same question, if he gets through how am I going to handle all the chat, I wish they hadn't asked this idiot here etc etc. So the round starts and he's giving it exactly the same chat that I saw on the TV, I'll show you one card which one do you want to see etc. Except he wasn't coming across like an arsehole like he did on TV he was coming across like a kid on Christmas eve or your dog when you get in from work - just really excitable, very friendly and a bit hyper. The rerst of the table politely ignored him and after about 10 minutes or so he shut up and was pretty quiet for the rest of the match.

So anyway he busts out 3rd or 4th I think, comes into the green room to be interviewed and starts chatting to a few of us. Someone mentioned the WPT thing and he was saying look I just love playing poker I get really excited while I play but I don't mean any harm by it. There were lots of people in that room who like me wanted to hate this guy and by this time all of us were getting to like him. Then some boring guy just kind of grabs Tony and starts talking to him for probably 15-20 minutes, he was the type of person that I would have fvcked off after about 2 minutes but Tony sat there taking an interest in what the guy was saying answering all his questions being pretty generous with his time. A couple of nights later I'm sitting in the Hotel bar getting drunk and playing a small tourney with some of the other players when Tony walks past, "Hey Tony you wanna play in our tourney?" "How much is it?" "£10" "Nah I'm going to bed" So we start hurling the insults "We can make it less if you can't afford it Tony" "Call yourself a pro and you're scared to play us" "Didn't realise you were gay Tony" He cracks up laughing and carries on going to bed.

Like I said in the other thread, imo (and that of a lot of other people there) Tony G is a nice guy who was edited by the WPT to look like a twat.

[Cyrus]

Although this belongs in Psychology, I'll contribute two generic cents on how to tilt back your tilt-inducing, trash-talking opponent.

You always wanna hit lower --till you get to the genitals.

Just make sure that your reaction is only a little lower than the action. Both in content and in delivery.

Content: He trashes your looks, you trash his masculinity. He trashes your masculinity, you mock his intelligence. He trashes your intelligence, you trash his looks. choose any other area that has a potential for abuse and work out for yourself your counter-plan. (This works in scissors/rock/paper fashion. Most crude trash-talkers probably do not realize that.)

It's important to be prepared for mental battle beforehand. Do not find yourself forced to adjust your mental state and attitude at the table -- sure you can do it, but it costs you. (I like pre-prepared one-liners of wit.)

Delivery : It's often more important that content (Ronald Reagan and I rest my case). We have various sub-categories:

Pitch of voice: Higher means weakness, lower means strength. Try to speak half a tone lower than your opponent (just don't make yourself sound stupid that way). It registers authority.

Level of voice: Try to speak a tad lower in volume than your opponent. Can you force people to prick their ears to hear you? That's authority! (I'm not suggesting you resort to whispering.) Don't worry is your opponent has an impressive, naturally loud, booming voice. As long as you come back with a quietly delivered, stingy answer, you are the main attraction and he is the straight guy.

Speed: Speak a little slower than the opponent. Again, power means controlling the time. Speak as if what you are saying is the definite word, that there can be no rebuttal to your missive. Learn the importance of the pause. (Fast talkers are continuous talkers, and they soon numb the audience into boredom. Learn to let the rap-fast trash taker hang on his words by letting him stew in your silence.)

I will leave the matter of physical counter-intimidation to experts like Mason Malmuth to elaborate.

Good luck.

[Marius K]

Overtalk Tony G. Use his own weapons. He is doing that with the reason - to drive opponents mad and disclose their bluffs. I read in Tony's personal page www.tonygpoker.com (http://www.tonygpoker.com)

[Toro]

Last night during the 2+2 sng we were kibitzing about Tony G and someone dubbed him the Australian Mike Matasow. Well there's your answer. How did Raymer handle the big mouth Matasow? With a silent and stoic stare.

I absolutely disagree with trying to compete verbally with a guy like this. It's his schtick and he's probably a lot better at it than you. So just do what Fossilman did and when he offers to apoligize and shake your hand do what Fossilman and Lederer both did, don't give him the time of day.

[ismisus]

Three ways to about this...
1. Fight fire with fire--can't insult him, since he's an expert on how to fight with fire, you're amateur.
2. Fight fire with water--can't make fun at him, you'll look like that American dork.
3. Ignore the fire--the right solution, let the fire die out!

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
Like I said in the other thread, imo (and that of a lot of other people there) Tony G is a nice guy who was edited by the WPT to look like a twat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I liked your post until this.

The WPT could not have EDITED Tony G saying all that bullchit about "crushing" guys and "destroying" guys and sending guys home and all of that.

This is what makes him a "twat."

Somebody should just say "You know, Tony, in the real world, if you talked this much chit, somebody would smash your face wide open. If you don't shut the f*ck up, I'm goin REAL WORLD on your ass."

[yellowjack]

When did Lederer have an incident like this? Elaborate please?

[mrbaseball]

I'd love to see Tony G and Hellmuth at the same table. Toss in the unibomber, Ellis Powers and a random crew member. Then have McManus as the sixth just to be disgusted by all of the antics /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
When did Lederer have an incident like this? Elaborate please?

[/ QUOTE ]

A year ago at the same WPT tourney at the Aviator Club in action before the final table. They showed a little snippet of it on TV. After Lederer got knocked out Tony G went over to shake his hand and Lederer jerked his hand away and turned his back on him with extreme contempt written all over his face. It was definitely a Kodak moment.

[mostsmooth]

am i the only person who didnt know who tony g was?

[wray]

Tony G's only other WPT final table was in Paris 2 years ago.

If he talked that much crap to me I'd let him know in a very calm voice that I'm not someone he can push around. I'd let him know that I didn't care that he thought it was only AT the table. I'd tell him that I would take care of it away from the table.

[Matt Ruff]

[ QUOTE ]
am i the only person who didnt know who tony g was?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but you're a bulldog, so the fact that you can type is achievement enough.

-- M. Ruff

[That guy]

Tony was toeing the line of decency the entire night but there was one point where I think he crossed it. It was when he slammed his fist down on the pad that surrounds the table -- right next to Surinder. It was right after winning a race. I might have just punched him in the face after that.

Tony was hiding behind this 'poker is just a game' routine and I agree that these things sometimes get a little too serious and players pretend like luck is not even a factor in the outcome of the final table. The fact is that it takes luck to win a tournament, in addition to playing really well, and guys need to lighten up. That said, Tony went too far when he slammed the table and should have been penalized. Talking is fine but slamming the table when you have just WON is not acceptable in my book. You shouldn't be able to put it in the guys face like that...

Best line of the night by Sexton:

'Now Surinder is getting a lesson in poker by old Mr Lucky who just delivered a bad beat.'

[Kevmath]

[ QUOTE ]
When did Lederer have an incident like this? Elaborate please?

[/ QUOTE ]

From RGP:

Lederer v Tony G 2002 (http://tinyurl.com/443vt)

Kevin...

[VinnyTheFish]

1 - Tell him to Shut the F*** up!
2 - laugh in disbelief as he rivers me.
3 - walk around the table slowly, grab what ever I can and hit him over the head with six or 7 times while shouting, "it's only a game ... I did not mean anything by it!"

4 - get escorted off site/arrested.
5 - get banned by the WSOP/WPT
6 - become the most famous player on the European tour
7 - winner "most admired player" on the European Tour

EDIT: nah, I'd play with class. I'd lose with class and win with class. The Raymer/Matsow deny the hand shake is the way to go. Although it does sound like fun and I bet it would get the highest ratings of any WPT show!

[CanKid]

play your game ignore him, if he gets out of line find him after the game

[xenthebrain]

They use their mouths to mark their territory, and show dominance. Fighting back only leads to a severe escalation of greater fighting.

[/ QUOTE ]

You said it. When fighting back only leads to a severe escalation of greater fighting you can only lose, because these guys do it all the time, they have much more experience with these situations, and you won't be able to get the last word. You will only embaress yourself by fighting back and then losing this "fight".

[nova]

Totally agree with Toro: I remember that altercation as well...just keep playing your game and let someone else look like the [censored]. The unfortunate thing is when someone draws out on you and knock you out..times like that? just don't shake his hand (yeah howard!) and move on with it. Someone who talks that much means it's their game...so counter with yours. I'd probably make him call the clock every time. Look down at 27o in the BB when I could see a free flop, I still wait /images/graemlins/smile.gif

or just say something really bad about his mother /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[daveymck]

Havent seen the show but Surindar has been around the block a few times so I am sure has had people trash talking to him a lot and can put it to one side and play his game.

I bet he was doing his neck twitch thing a lot though.

[tonedown]

I'd put him down a notch or two with my witty repartee.

[That guy]

I bet he was doing his neck twitch thing a lot though.

When it got really heated, Surinders twitch got more dramatic.

How about the Phil Laak defense. Put some sunglasses and your hood on and listen to some Soundgarden music on your Ipod.

[daveymck]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet he was doing his neck twitch thing a lot though.

When it got really heated, Surinders twitch got more dramatic.

How about the Phil Laak defense. Put some sunglasses and your hood on and listen to some Soundgarden music on your Ipod.

[/ QUOTE ]

From LNP and a few other UK shows he has been on it gets going a bit at times when he is either annoyed or under pressure.

[McMelchior]

I appreciate reading that Tony G. (I believe the G stands for Gouga) has been edited on TV to appear much more malicious than he appears in real life.

Anyway, the subject of the thread is how to deal with someone behaving like Tony G. appears to act.

Other posters have already expounded on why fighting back on his terms is a very poor idea.

But nobody has come up with what I immediate think of as the most obvious course of action:

The first time I was addressed directly I would (while trying to keep my cool) inform the guy that:
- I don't find him amusing,
- I consider his behavior boorish and inappropriate in a public space,
- I don’t consider his attacks a legit part of the game, and
- I will not accept it.

If he continues I will call the tournament director and ask him/her to stop the verbal abuse, using exactly these words. I will not engage in further dispute with “Tony”, and I will continue to call the tournament director as long as the abuse goes on.

I believe it’s important to call for and in any possible way encourage a zero tolerance policy against this kind of behavior. As many other posters earlier has stated it’s a sad side-effect of tournament media-coverage that TV not only focuses on - but actually encourages - inappropriate behavior at the tables.

I’d like to add that I see a vast difference between Paul Philip’s friendly jest at the Bike and Tony G.’s perceived harassments – even though they’re appearing in the TV show for the same reasons.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[MonkeeMan]

I think a nice little "SHUT THE F*** UP, A**HOLE" every time he talked to me would do the trick. It would keep me from tilting anyway. And then after the match I would say "It's just a game".

I wouldn't try actual verbal sparring as he likely has much more experience at that in game situations. A standard one-liner should do.

[SossMan]

"THE ISLAND OF CRETE!!"

that is all, move along

[jaybee_70]

So you are going to get back at the guy by slowing down the game and disrespecting everybody else at the table?

Joe

[jah0550]

As far as good poker TV, I think this guy is hilarious. Although, if I played at the same table, I'd probably kick his ass after the game. If he started belittleing(sp?) me after I lost a hand to a bad beat, I'd pretent to shake his hand, then punch him in the face.

[CCx]

[ QUOTE ]
am i the only person who didnt know who tony g was?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, I had no clue either - then again I've never seen the WPT, so that may have something to do with it.

[AceFace]

[ QUOTE ]
I appreciate reading that Tony G. (I believe the G stands for Gouga) has been edited on TV to appear much more malicious than he appears in real life.

Anyway, the subject of the thread is how to deal with someone behaving like Tony G. appears to act.

Other posters have already expounded on why fighting back on his terms is a very poor idea.

But nobody has come up with what I immediate think of as the most obvious course of action:

The first time I was addressed directly I would (while trying to keep my cool) inform the guy that:
- I don't find him amusing,
- I consider his behavior boorish and inappropriate in a public space,
- I don’t consider his attacks a legit part of the game, and
- I will not accept it.

If he continues I will call the tournament director and ask him/her to stop the verbal abuse, using exactly these words. I will not engage in further dispute with “Tony”, and I will continue to call the tournament director as long as the abuse goes on.

I believe it’s important to call for and in any possible way encourage a zero tolerance policy against this kind of behavior. As many other posters earlier has stated it’s a sad side-effect of tournament media-coverage that TV not only focuses on - but actually encourages - inappropriate behavior at the tables.

I’d like to add that I see a vast difference between Paul Philip’s friendly jest at the Bike and Tony G.’s perceived harassments – even though they’re appearing in the TV show for the same reasons.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, and your post also suggests that his behavior was
singled out and highlighted by the WPT producers as some sort of attraction.

One puzzling thought that comes to mind is why the other players did not call over the TD to complain.

Could be that his outbursts were really a lot less frequent than this show makes them out to be?

[Fitz]

I think I'd pay to see this guy sit with Phil for a few hours... Now that would be reality TV.

Fitz

[Rduke55]

I don't understand everyone that wants to fight just because someone's needling you at the table. While it's definitely not my style as far as I can see it's not like he's pulling out real personal stuff, just poker trash talk. It's obviously a ploy. One that works by the reaction in this thread. Leave it at the table.

[Mithrandir]

I only saw the last hour of the last show, but it looked like he was really outplayed and just outdrew everyone.
Personally, I'd either sit back and play slow as all hell to annoy him while not saying a word. Or I'd come over the top on his rotund ass with the insults. He'd lose. there's just too much to make fun of. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[CrazyN8]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd love to see Tony G and Hellmuth at the same table. Toss in the unibomber, Ellis Powers and a random crew member. Then have McManus as the sixth just to be disgusted by all of the antics /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you leave out Sam Grizzle?

That guy really would take Tony outside and woop his @$$. He did it to Phil H. what would stop him from taking on this guy? (okay, they are probably best buds but other than that)

As for dealing with him I would insist on a penalty if any of his attacks could be construed at threats, otherwise I would just ignore him.

[pokerstudAA]

Tony G on Tony G: (he mentions the Paris taping)

"I got the TV table on the first day, first hand. Not surprising they wanted me to make a show. Well this time I was not talking and being good not drinking helped, I think I have had enough being hyper trash talking my opponents and will try to do be better then you saw me in Paris WPT. If you only new why I was like that in Paris 2003 show. The french did not play a hand against each other and helped each other so I was trying to put them on tilt which i did but could not win and looked like an obnoxious brat ( this is not true in real life at all) perhaps next time I will win in Paris doing that kind of stuff, but one thing for sure is that I love Paris its unreall to be there just something special win or lose ( I was real close in the nest WPT 2004 this show will be aired soon(March 22nd) dont miss its the best)I pray tehy present me better but who knows, editing can make things look like they want but I ma happy to be the Dennis Rodman of poker just need to get some better results fist and win a major event but trying can be more fun then doing it sometimes, I was close in 3 WPT events where i had chip leads with 7 players or less left but blew it every time but I knoe I loved everyone one of those experainces and a win may never come enjoy what you get."

[KJS]

Even though you avoided elimination by hitting two 6s with K6 v. TT? I think the fact that I stayed alive with a longshot suckout would temper me a bit. If I outplayed him, sure I'd let him have it.

KJS

[poboy]

It shouldn't matter at all if he choses to run his mouth, a good player wouldn't be affected by a little trash-talking. There is trash-talking in any form of serious competition. I personally enjoyed his show, which is all it is a show. I would love to play at a table with this guy, just for the entertainment value. To all the 12 year olds who said they'd retaliate with violence, what names do you use and at which poker sites do you play? I'd love to play at a table full of people who would go on mega-tilt over some words. JMO

[sirtimo]

[ QUOTE ]
When it got really heated, Surinders twitch got more dramatic.


From LNP and a few other UK shows he has been on it gets going a bit at times when he is either annoyed or under pressure.

[/ QUOTE ]

My wife (RN, BSN, etc etc) was watching the show with me and swore that Surindar's twitch looked just like a mild form of Tourrett's syndrome.

I don't know anything about the guy. Any info??

regards,
Tim

[McMelchior]

Being a certified psycho-therapist with a degree in psychology I'm always amazed by the certainty people issue diagnosises based on brief TV appearances. What do we need time-consuming and expensive neuro-psychological differential evaluations for? Just have somebody appear on TV , and we'll have the guy cased in a matter of minutes!

Check CardPlayer's story on Surindar here:

Allyn Jaffrey Shulman on WPT Paris 2004 & Surindar Sunar (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=14180&m_id=65542)

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[maryfield48]

Nice post. But...is that how Clint Eastwood or Gary Cooper would handle it?