I want to protect my hand dammit [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Emmitt2222

03-23-2005, 09:29 PM

I just had pretty bad relative position on this hand that sucked a lot so I was pretty confused on how to play it after the c/r. All three players are fishy and havent really gotten too out of line but could pull some odd things now and then, but that was usually when they were heads up.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 4 folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB raises, UTG calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Does anyone 3bet? My hand was pretty vulnerable so I decided to wait for the turn, yes? Couldnt put the villian on a hand to save me.

Turn: (8 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises...

This card was pretty scary and my position isnt good, but I felt I may be giving up something by not raising and I had a chance to at least knock one person out with a raise. If I get three bet do I fold?

If this is too standard, for the love of all that is good someone just tell me because it seems I can never get any feedback on my hands.

SoCalPat

03-23-2005, 09:40 PM

Three-bet the flop. Regardless of whether or not you wait until the turn to raise, you're not knocking any draws out. They all have the odds to call your raise. You'd also hate to give a cheap card on the flop that gives someone else a huge draw on the turn.

Unless the flush hits, you can see this to a showdown for one bet on each street. Only if it becomes more expensive can you give serious thought to ditching TPTK.

PancakeBoy

03-23-2005, 09:46 PM

3 bet it! If a scarier card comes on the turn ( /images/graemlins/club.gif, K ) you'll be even more lost.

djoyce003

03-23-2005, 09:50 PM

threebet the flop. Bet the turn, probably could fold to a turn checkraise.

Emmitt2222

03-23-2005, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
3 bet it! If a scarier card comes on the turn ( , K ) you'll be even more lost.

[/ QUOTE ]

but that is the whole point of waiting for the turn. I have a decent made hand now, but if a blank falls my equity increases a lot. I only have the chance of knocking out the sb with the 3bet, but even that is unlikely because he is loose and has one bet in already. It could also get capped by villian and that wouldnt be good.

[ QUOTE ]
Unless the flush hits, you can see this to a showdown for one bet on each street. Only if it becomes more expensive can you give serious thought to ditching TPTK.

[/ QUOTE ]

SoCalPat, I have no idea what that means considering you told me to 3bet the flop. I'm not in calldown mode yet.

SoCalPat

03-23-2005, 10:05 PM

You were worried about future aggression. I was merely telling you what you should do in case you faced it after your flop 3-bet.

crunchy1

03-23-2005, 10:19 PM

You want to protect your hand here but, you probably can't. Thus I think you should be 3-betting for value and taking the extra bets from SB and UTG who seem awfully tied to the pot with all the calling. You likely have the best hand and (a) don't want to give free/cheap cards and (b) want to charge the maximum to have players drawing against you.

If you are beat by BB (check-raises from FISH I don't like at all) I think you find out how bad by 3-betting. If he caps, you're in trouble you call but, probably, check/fold the turn UI. If he's got you pretty bad (like 77/88) you might slow him down on the big streets and get to showdown cheap.

tetonpete

03-23-2005, 10:43 PM

3 bet the flop for value...you can't protect your hand against straight and flush draws, but they are paying you. It'll also make the rest of the hand easier to play, and possibly save you some money if you're behind a monster. With this board, it's also unlikely a set will do a lot of slowplaying.

CallMeIshmael

03-23-2005, 10:49 PM

This is really a tough spot to protect your hand.

If you 3-bet preflop, you are offering the SB 9-1, but on the turn, as it played, out, you offered him 6-1. It is nearly impossible to force UTG to make a mistake with any hand that is not drawing dead to you (ie. you cant offer him odds he wouldnt be happy to take, just because of his relative position to the other players)

Thus, it seems that the only mistake you can force someone to make, is the SB, into calling with short odds with exactly a 5 or 6 outter. That scenario doesn't happen a whole lot.

Get the information provided to you by 3 betting a checkraising fish, and get the equity in while you can. If he caps, fold the turn unimproved.