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View Full Version : KQs and it feels so wrong

Rubeskies
03-23-2005, 06:22 PM
BB is loose passive
SB is 66/16/1 over 110 hands.

Did I do anything right postflop?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB
Grisgra
03-23-2005, 06:25 PM
Raise the flop for god's sake, try to take a free card on the turn. River raise is fine I think though I get shown a baby flush or two pair way too often after I do it. Think I'm just unlucky though /images/graemlins/smile.gif.
TStoneMBD
03-23-2005, 06:39 PM
definitely raise this flop. youre losing equity by just calling. youre also missing out on free card potential and fold equity.

i dont like the river raise. its close, but i think that its really dangerous and also semi-spewing.
Danenania
03-23-2005, 07:40 PM
You could raise the flop unless SB is particularly likely to 3-bet. River raise is just right against this player I think.
TStoneMBD
03-23-2005, 07:45 PM
why are you afraid of SB 3betting? if hes capable of 3betting top pair, its highly likely that hero is drawing to 14 outs and is the mathematical favorite. if im 3bet i immediately cap and take a free card if possible.
Danenania
03-23-2005, 07:46 PM
14 outs?
Joe826
03-23-2005, 07:49 PM
I agree with everyone else, raise the flop.

The river raise is fine since you can easily fold to a 3-bet.
Lmn55d
03-23-2005, 08:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
definitely raise this flop. youre losing equity by just calling. youre also missing out on free card potential and fold equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? First, how is hero losing equity by not raising? I'm assuming he has something like 7-8 outs (discounted by being reverse dominated or someone having flush/straight draw). Second, you mention a raise giving you both fold equity (on the turn I'm assuming) and a free card opportunity. If one player folded to your flop raise, would you always bet the turn rather than taking a free card?
Lmn55d
03-23-2005, 08:21 PM
yea, I'm counting 10 max.
TStoneMBD
03-23-2005, 08:51 PM
sorry guys, ignore my posts in this thread. i thought this was an OESD, not a gutshot.
Poker Cat
03-23-2005, 10:06 PM
Raising the flop here is almost mandatory.

You've got six overcard outs and four straight outs, three making the nuts. With that board, many players will bet draws plus almost any pair assuming you have missed. Plus you want the free turn card if needed and possible fold equity from the blinds.
Lmn55d
03-23-2005, 10:13 PM
would you still raise the flop?
TStoneMBD
03-23-2005, 10:14 PM
yes
Danenania
03-23-2005, 10:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop here is almost mandatory.

You've got six overcard outs and four straight outs, three making the nuts. With that board, many players will bet draws plus almost any pair assuming you have missed. Plus you want the free turn card if needed and possible fold equity from the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

WEll aren't we optimistic today. Seriously, raising the flop is cool but your hand isn't that strong (you definitely don't have 10 effective outs), you can't knock anyone out, and you can make more money on later streets if you catch by not raising.

Oh and raising risks a 3-bet which is fairly likely to happen at 10/20.
TStoneMBD
03-23-2005, 10:32 PM
this is a good point. if the game is aggressive then i dont think its a good idea to raise this here. if its passive, which is how the 5/10 games are, then i think raising is correct.
chio
03-23-2005, 10:35 PM
i like your line a lot

on the flop, i'd much rather call getting 8-1 closing the action with a gutshot + 2 overs. i don't think you're not gaining much even if the free card play works. and you certainly don't have the best hand here

on the turn, i think calling is the only play here

on the river, call or raise seems fine. i'd just call because SB bet out the flush, and the river card completes many draws. but your read on SB makes raising seem ok