Stud 8 shorthanded 3rd St. question

If you are playing 3 or 4 handed Stud 8 and it's standard at the table for a lone showing ace to make an automatic raise on 3rd St., thus making the rest of the hand essentially random, what are good enough hands to call with? Will being the bring-in make a difference in your choice? (completion is double bring-in)

Hands to consider:

KK or other high pair.
Low pair w/low: 455, 45s5, 288, A77 (various straight and suitedness combos w and w/out ace)
Garbage 3 low: 278
Ok 3 low: 245
bad low w/ace: A78
two low w/suited ace: As2J
3 flush w/no ace: 59J
3 flush/2 low no ace: 37K
high straight: 9TJ

I used to play heads up 8 or better stud quite a bit. My policy was to play aces with 2 low cards, (AA)x, (xx)x, a low 3 straight, a low 3 flush, and an A high 3 flush with a 2 low and a good low card up (6 or better). This was heads up, but it's probably similar 3-4 ways, except your hand must be very live.

There was essentially an understanding that the ace won the pot barring unusual circumstances.

Hope this is helpful.

[Andy B]

While I'm a stronger stud and stud/8 player than a hold'em player, my short game game is not as good in stud games as it is in hold'em. The only real success I've had in short-handed stud/8 games has been against terrible opponents. I've lost to mediocre opponents heads-up a few times now. With that said, hopefully I can contribute something.

One of the reasons that you have to loosen up in short-handed games is that the overhead goes up. If you sit around and wait for premium tickets, the antes/blinds will kill you. This is much more true in hold'em than it is in stud, though. In stud, you're anteing the same amount per hand, so your only additional cost is that you will be the bring-in more frequently. Also, the initial pot is smaller in the short-handed stud game, so there's less incentive to steal. If you don't adjust at all in a short-handed stud game, you're really not giving up that much. If you don't adjust in a short-handed hold'em game, you're dead.

Out of the hands that you list, the only one that I would tend to call a raise by an Ace in a full game with is 542. I consider this to be considerably better than "OK." The others are all asking for trouble. Well, I might play the three-flush with the two low cards if my suit were completely live, but I've been souring on three-flushes of late.

KK or other high pair.
Low pair w/low: 455, 45s5, 288, A77 (various straight and suitedness combos
w and w/out ace)

With these hands, I would tend to play, although I'd be quick to get away from them if things developed badly. I'm sufficiently down on big pairs that I've considered dumping a live pair of Kings for the bring-in with no Aces showing, but it hasn't come to that yet. Keep in mind, though, that even if opponent doesn't have Aces, he has something like a 25% chance of making Aces later. The low pair/low kicker hands are better, I think, but they need to develop.

Garbage 3 low: 278

Muck it.

Ok 3 low: 245

Definite play.

bad low w/ace: A78

Well, there is a better chance that he doesn't have Aces. Unfortunately, your Ace is dead and your low draw is rough. If there are other low cards out, you probably shouldn't get involved. If the Ace can have anything underneath, and the other hands don't show anything threatening, I think it's OK to play.

two low w/suited ace: As2J

Just so I understand, this is a hand with two suited cards, not three, right? If it's three suited cards, it's a play. With only two, it's a definite muck.

3 flush w/no ace: 59J

Maybe with a completely live suit and a bunch of bananas showing.

3 flush/2 low no ace: 37K

If my hand is live, I'll probably play. Change the 7 to a 6 and I like it better.

high straight: 9TJ

Yuck.

If the bring-in was half a bet, I would call a completion with all of these hands except the AJ2 double-suited and the JT9. If the bring-in was 1/4 or 1/3 of a bet, I wouldn't change my calling requirements much, if at all, although I'd probably play A87 if my call closed the action.

I am reminded of a $30/60 stud/8 game I played in this past spring. Around 2 am, the seven of us left in the $15/30 hold'em game realized that we were all on the $30/60 stud/8 list, so we changed the game. The game went on for several hours. Around 6 or 7 am, it was down to three of us. There was an extreme live one and a young guy who I think fancies himself a professional gambler, but who plays too loose. I raised every time I had an Ace in the door. Every time. The "pro" was to my left, and the live one to my right. At least six or eight times, the "pro" brought it in for the minimum, the live one limped, I raised with an Ace showing, and both opponents mucked. The live one basically gave me $10 six or eight times because he was oblivious to my extremely predictable strategy. I wound up taking about $2000 from him heads-up. I had gotten stuck $2000 in the hold'em game, gotten it all back, and was back down $600 again when the stud/8 game started. I wound up plus $3400 for the night.