hand from a while ago

[BobboFitos]

there have been a few posts about river check raises, and at first glance i shrugged most of them off, because those situations are icky and i tend not to get myself in them. ( :P )

This was like a month ago or so, details may be off, but - Pokerstars .5/1, I have full buyin+, main villain is EP with ~70ish.

Preflop -

Villain limps and two other dudes, I bump to 5 total with A Qo (w/ Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif) on the button
Big blind calls, Villain calls, one other limper calls.

Flop - 22ish

K /images/graemlins/spade.gif J x X /images/graemlins/spade.gif (I think)

They check to me, I check the flop

Turn - still 22ish, A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, Villain bets something like 10, (very small) I contemplate raising but opt to call. The others get out of the way.

River - 42ish, Ax

he checks, I bet 22, he check raises all in.

Dunno why I didn't post it. time to go to the bank. looking for some good replies when i get back..

note the all in was roughly for me to call 40 to win 160.

[dtbog]

I hope he had Ax T /images/graemlins/spade.gif!

Would villain limp early and then call a raise with QT? A /images/graemlins/spade.gif, K /images/graemlins/spade.gif, and Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif are gone... which covers a lot of the suited hands he could be playing from EP.

I could see a bumbled-up KJ.. slowplayed his top-two on the flop, chickened out when all of the draws hit on the turn, and then fired a desparation bluff on the river. In fact, if this were $25 or $50 NL, that's probably exactly what I'd put him on -- because people there like to forget what happens when their two pair gets counterfeited.

What's the $10 turn bet?

Gah.. he could have gone full, he could have a weaker ace, flush, I dunno. You have to be right 25% of the time to call, so I call here -- but this seems relatively player-dependent to me. If he's into chip-spewing on scary boards, I'm more inclined to call. If he likes to make pussy min-bets on the turn when he makes his hand, I'm more inclined to fold.

[vanHelsing]

Turn:
I like your call very much. You are on the nut flush draw and definetly don't want to get trapped here.

River:
You don't give us a read.
I haven't played on PS, but against the typical Party player, I can't see me folding Trips/TK on the river getting 4:1 for my money.
After seeing you playing the flop and turn quite passively, is he really checkraising with a hand that beats you?
Without a good read I take the 4:1!

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
Without a good read I take the 4:1!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh.. I thought the 160 in included his call. 20%.. call even more. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-DB

[vanHelsing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Without a good read I take the 4:1!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh.. I thought the 160 in included his call. 20%.. call even more. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-DB

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops, I think you got it right and it's 3:1 /images/graemlins/blush.gif
I still call. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Burno]

Tough spot, river check-raises are usually not a bluff.

I'm having great difficulty putting him on a hand, except maybe TsQx or some misplayed baby flush.

I don't like it, but at this price I think I look him up.


Burno

[SeattleJake]

AK/AJ slim chance
KK/JJ would have bet on flop
QQ/TT/QJ/QT maybe
KQ/KT likely
KJ more likely
T9s most likely

So you're beating QQ/TT/QJ/KQ/KT/KJ (weight: 8), and losing to QT/T9s (weight: 4). 2:1 favorite and getting 7:2 pot odds.

Sounds good. Even if you count a chance that he has AK/AJ/KK/JJ, it would only raise the ratio to 1:1, and you'd still call with p.e.

Edit: Basically you'd have to be 77% sure you're beat to not call this bet.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I think you should call because the pot is so big. If he has a weak ace 25% of the time and is bluffing 10% of the time, you make money. I don't think that is too unreasonable. But I think it is a pretty scary board to be 'value' betting you hand here on the river. I like it a bit better if you can EASILY lay down to a check/raise. But since you have to worry about what to do if he check/raises you, then I definitely don't think you should have bet the river here.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
But I think it is a pretty scary board to be 'value' betting you hand here on the river. I like it a bit better if you can EASILY lay down to a check/raise. But since you have to worry about what to do if he check/raises you, then I definitely don't think you should have bet the river here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. What did you put him on when you bet?

-DB

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
hope he had Ax T !

Would villain limp early and then call a raise with QT? A , K , and Q are gone... which covers a lot of the suited hands he could be playing from EP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really dont know /images/graemlins/frown.gif It was a while ago.

What I do remember (I'm going to spoil this one, I folded) was that he played A7o to a raise and went broke with trips on the flop to a bigger ace later in the session. So I was kicking myself for folding. Because although he very likely could have straight / boat / flush I think he has a weaker ace enough % of a time. (or pure bluff, however unlikely) Like... His c/r could've been for value, but I could beat some of his value bet hands. At the itme I really didn't think I was beating ANYTHING.

[ QUOTE ]
What's the $10 turn bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dunno. By the river I was expecting him to call with weaker trips / aces and kings / something like that. (in retrospect, was the value bet bad?)

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should call because the pot is so big. If he has a weak ace 25% of the time and is bluffing 10% of the time, you make money. I don't think that is too unreasonable. But I think it is a pretty scary board to be 'value' betting you hand here on the river. I like it a bit better if you can EASILY lay down to a check/raise. But since you have to worry about what to do if he check/raises you, then I definitely don't think you should have bet the river here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're right. I dont think the value bet was good

[BobboFitos]

he could also have had xx for bottom set on flop

but your breakdown is good...