Does anyone else think party blows???? [Archive]

JerBear77

03-23-2005, 02:19 PM

Im a solid 1/2 and 2/4 player on Crypto and Prima sites...
Here is my bonus clearing story...

Offer of $100 for 1000 raked hands
Then the reload March bonus i put in $100

therefore....
1140 raked hands for $120 dollars.

Just got done clearing the bonus and im withdrawing $80...lol

Can't believe the suckouts ive gotten by PURE garbage(not even suited garbage)

Does anyone notice the huge variance expected if you play here??

I played the 1/2 6max tables that are quoted on here to be "manna from god"

I started on here but left to go BW on other sites and im not sure if i like the games on here...any comments?

Thanks

Starrkitty

03-23-2005, 02:32 PM

I know the feeling. Everyone here keeps saying how great the money is at Party so everytime there is a bonus I think "Self maybe this time it will be different." So I deposit my money and before long I'm remembering exactly why I vowed not to play there last time. I'm a pretty consistant winner at other sites like Paradise, UB, or the Cryptos but give me a Party Bonus and I'm lucky to come out even after the bonus.

Party to me is like throwing my bankroll into a crowd of drunken frat guys and seeing how much money I can wrestle back by the end of the night. I don't know why my play doesn't suit Party, my stats are fairly decent in Poker Tracker but for some reason me and Party skins just do not mix.

So untill that next great bonus offer which I know I won't be able to resist I'm off to greener pastures.

adamstewart

03-23-2005, 02:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Im a solid 1/2 and 2/4 player on Crypto and Prima sites...
Here is my bonus clearing story...

Offer of $100 for 1000 raked hands
Then the reload March bonus i put in $100

therefore....
1140 raked hands for $120 dollars.

Just got done clearing the bonus and im withdrawing $80...lol

Can't believe the suckouts ive gotten by PURE garbage(not even suited garbage)

Does anyone notice the huge variance expected if you play here??

I played the 1/2 6max tables that are quoted on here to be "manna from god"

I started on here but left to go BW on other sites and im not sure if i like the games on here...any comments?

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

You fail to understand some of the fundamental concepts of poker.

Adam

adamstewart

03-23-2005, 02:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I know the feeling. Everyone here keeps saying how great the money is at Party so everytime there is a bonus I think "Self maybe this time it will be different." So I deposit my money and before long I'm remembering exactly why I vowed not to play there last time. I'm a pretty consistant winner at other sites like Paradise, UB, or the Cryptos but give me a Party Bonus and I'm lucky to come out even after the bonus.

Party to me is like throwing my bankroll into a crowd of drunken frat guys and seeing how much money I can wrestle back by the end of the night. I don't know why my play doesn't suit Party, my stats are fairly decent in Poker Tracker but for some reason me and Party skins just do not mix.

So untill that next great bonus offer which I know I won't be able to resist I'm off to greener pastures.

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1989941&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=7&vc=1)

BradleyT

03-23-2005, 02:45 PM

Yeah I can't wait to move up a few levels so I can play against people that respect my raises.

JerBear77

03-23-2005, 02:48 PM

I understand the concepts perfectly, im just thinking that in order to clear the bonus PLUS make a profit a reasonable amount of time you have to play at least 2/4 while you clear.

GoblinMason (Craig)

03-23-2005, 02:49 PM

Yeah, also it's less rigged at the higher limits because they don't need to increase the rake.

SoftcoreRevolt

03-23-2005, 02:51 PM

Yeah man I hate playing against crappy players, I just want to play against people of my own skill level since that is where the real money is to be made, not against some RIVER RAT playing K2s against my pocket Queens.

adamstewart

03-23-2005, 02:51 PM

Sponger15SB

03-23-2005, 02:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I understand the concepts perfectly

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure you do

JerBear77

03-23-2005, 02:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, also it's less rigged at the higher limits because they don't need to increase the rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Less rigged??? lol now that's funny. Less obnoxious fishes that hit their 2 outers frequently.

NoChance

03-23-2005, 02:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I understand the concepts perfectly, im just thinking that in order to clear the bonus PLUS make a profit a reasonable amount of time you have to play at least 2/4 while you clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you could just deposit enough so that you get some portion of the bonus that does not make you a) play more tables than you normally do, b) force you to move up limits to clear the bonus, or c) force you to give you your normal every day activities so you are not stuck in front of the computer for 10 hours a day.

Nobody said you have to do the max. Do what is comfortable and you will come out much better.

puckboy

03-23-2005, 02:56 PM

I had a very similiar experience this time around with the bonus clearing ended up down 1/2 of what i put in. GOt sucked out alot, AA KK routinely getting cracked with crap.

But that's party poker, when you run bad, you run really bad. When you run good it's really good. Last time i put bonuswhored there i cleared the bonus + 100%.

Can't beat the site for it's fish content, by far most on the net. Just have to work through the frustration of them winning big every so often

who knows what's going on there, anyone else notice the bad beat jackpot doesn't get over 100k anymore???

moondogg

03-23-2005, 02:56 PM

If you can't beat crappy players, the problem is NOT that you are too good for those games.

If you can't beat up a drunken parapalegic midget, the solution is not to go looking for a championship boxer to pick a fight with.

GoblinMason (Craig)

03-23-2005, 02:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Less rigged??? lol now that's funny. Less obnoxious fishes that hit their 2 outers frequently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Turn on your sarcasm detector.

adamstewart

03-23-2005, 02:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Less obnoxious fishes that hit their 2 outers frequently

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHHAAHAAH....stop it, you're killing me! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

(oh ya, wait... you're serious. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif)

Adam

JerBear77

03-23-2005, 03:00 PM

Actually i was being sarcastic as well...

Im not a rookie on this site...
Just frustrated.

Since the post i made back half of my loss....

When the fish bite, they bite hard but they pay the best there.

mmbt0ne

03-23-2005, 03:06 PM

These guys want to hear about it. (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewcategory&gro upID=100015246&Mytoken=20050320232245)

bigmac366

03-23-2005, 03:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't beat up a drunken parapalegic midget, the solution is not to go looking for a championship boxer to pick a fight with.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL! best response yet. i almost fell out of my chair when i read this.

wyoak

03-23-2005, 03:16 PM

the post by Jack on that board is a goodun.

EliteNinja

03-23-2005, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand the concepts perfectly

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure you do

[/ QUOTE ]

If you understand the concepts perfectly, I'm a monkey's uncle. As I don't even know them perfectly and know I don't suck.

solucky

03-23-2005, 03:24 PM

This month so far

Party 4000 hands -2,3 BB/ 100 Empire 11000 hands +5,5BB/100. Partys low limits are the most streaky games in my stats and in fact i win / better Bonus on other sites.

SomethingClever

03-23-2005, 03:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
less rigged

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, I'm using that.

SomethingClever

03-23-2005, 03:28 PM

playersare

03-23-2005, 03:29 PM

clearing the party 7x reload bonus at 1/2, you're getting 14c per raked hand or a 7BB/100 supplement to your actual play. you'd have to be an extremely bad player not to be able to come out ahead with that in the long run.

i am a devoted but categorically recreational player who scrapes by between +1-2BB/100 last 15,000 hands, so bonus whoring is the majority of my poker income. Have I had bad reload runs where I lost 100BB's only to get back 50BB's? sure. but that would consistute a short term of -14BB/100 over 700 raked hands, which is clearly not indicative of the long run. In fact, you could be a mediocre lifetime -2BB/100 player at $1/2 on party poker and STILL make 5BB/100 net on the reload bonuses.

most of the comments you've made here are pretty much evident of lacking experience. keep at it more and complain less, the numbers do work out eventually. I might suggest that you are not skilled enough to tackle shorthanded tables yet if you complain about garbage callers and higher volatility...that is basically a fact of life at 6-max and I know it took me a while to feel like I know what I was doing there as well.

Seeing that the party network is the easiest place in the world to 4-table at full ring low limit, I would take advantage of that format instead to make less variant, consistent easy profits.

OrangeKing

03-23-2005, 03:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This month so far

Party 4000 hands -2,3 BB/ 100 Empire 11000 hands +5,5BB/100. Partys low limits are the most streaky games in my stats and in fact i win / better Bonus on other sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly all the people complaining about how Party is hard/rigged/sucks should be playing at Empire then. I hear the games are completely different and significantly easier there, with far less cheating and a much different RNG...and it's convienent because they accept all the same payment methods as Party!

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SamJack

03-23-2005, 03:36 PM

JerBear77

03-23-2005, 03:42 PM

I think the most intellegent thing to do on these types of games is try to see the flop as cheaply as possible w/ your premium hands and raise on the turn if something hits you hard.

--Pulled that off of the other web page that was linked on one of the replies.

Rah

03-23-2005, 03:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't beat crappy players, the problem is NOT that you are too good for those games.

If you can't beat up a drunken parapalegic midget, the solution is not to go looking for a championship boxer to pick a fight with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, he could be facing crappy players... Or he could be playing 1/2 with 85% bonuswhores.

moondogg

03-23-2005, 03:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you can't beat crappy players, the problem is NOT that you are too good for those games.

If you can't beat up a drunken parapalegic midget, the solution is not to go looking for a championship boxer to pick a fight with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, he could be facing crappy players... Or he could be playing 1/2 with 85% bonuswhores.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoth the OP: [ QUOTE ]
Can't believe the suckouts ive gotten by PURE garbage(not even suited garbage)

[/ QUOTE ]

This thread started as a "loose players suckout on me" bitch, not a "there's too many bonus whores" bitch.

Regardless of why someone isn't beating 1/2 full or 1/2 6-max, moving up is a step in the wrong direction.

JerBear77

03-23-2005, 03:56 PM

Ok ok...i get it now....enough of the flaming....GEEEZZZZ

Anyways, i made up now since i created this post and actually have profit in addition to the bonus.

Seriously though,

Is it better to adopt a Passive Preflop/ Aggressive postflop mentality against these types of players?

Reef

03-23-2005, 04:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I understand the concepts perfectly

[/ QUOTE ]
it's funny how wrong this statement is

[ QUOTE ]
im just thinking that in order to clear the bonus PLUS make a profit a reasonable amount of time you have to play at least 2/4 while you clear.

[/ QUOTE ]
also wrong

Reef

03-23-2005, 04:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
These guys want to hear about it. (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewcategory&gro upID=100015246&Mytoken=20050320232245)

[/ QUOTE ]

regarding HEFAP

[ QUOTE ]
That book is horrible. Daniel N says that following this advice will make you play like a robot and that you'll never beat the games. I looked through it and i couldn't even read through more than a few chapters. it makes poker way too complicated. better to just trust your reads and play the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reef

03-23-2005, 04:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
These guys want to hear about it. (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewcategory&gro upID=100015246&Mytoken=20050320232245)

[/ QUOTE ]

yet another:
[ QUOTE ]
dude, the only book you need is the phil hellmuth book. it teachers you all the basics like "top 10 hands" "position" and even gets you into that math crap like pot odds. IMO, math is useless in poker unless you can get good reads on your oppentents. And you can't get good reads on your opponents unless you buy Phils DVD "Guide to bluffing and tells"

[/ QUOTE ]

BRILLIANT!

playersare

03-23-2005, 04:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is it better to adopt a Passive Preflop/ Aggressive postflop mentality against these types of players?

[/ QUOTE ]
in fixed limits? I seriously doubt it. it's the drawing hands that want to see cards cheaply, if you have a premium holding then you have to make them pay more while you're still theoretically ahead. unlike NL, you will not be able to bet enough to scare someone out of even the weakest draw if they already have their mind set to hit it.

raise and re-reraise on the first two betting rounds to gain information about other people's hands. after the turn you'll obviously have to slow down if another player still shows strength, but in the long run your big hands will hold up over half the time at showdown so you shouldn't worry about the occasional bad luck draw.

what you propose here is basically a mentality of wanting to "stick it" to bad players psychologically. it's only going to increase the probability of not winning with good starting hands and decrease your overall EV just so you can feel good for yourself on the occasional strong flop.

prrthd

03-23-2005, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the post by Jack on that board is a goodun.

[/ QUOTE ]

That can't be real, no one is that pathetic and clueless.

BusterStacks

03-23-2005, 04:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Im not a rookie on this site...
Just frustrated.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're still a rookie at poker apparently, and can expect to be so until you understand some fundamental concepts.

bd8802

03-23-2005, 04:28 PM

I don't think anyone has said the obligatory (EDIT: I am probably wrong i missed the other pages of responces.):

sample size too small.

I have seen my bb/100 range from -10 to +4 in the last 4000 hands at 1/2. Variance happens.

moondogg

03-23-2005, 04:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok ok...i get it now....enough of the flaming....GEEEZZZZ

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me man, you haven't really been flamed in this thread.

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously though,

Is it better to adopt a Passive Preflop/ Aggressive postflop mentality against these types of players?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want to minimize your variance, then yes.
If you want to make more money, then no.

BusterStacks

03-23-2005, 04:38 PM

ERROR: WE DO NOT SACRIFICE EV FOR VARIANCE.

webmonarch

03-23-2005, 04:44 PM

I wholeheartedly agree. I've played at Party off and on, and I consider it to be inferior for a variety of reasons. My biggst gripe: The software is horrible compared to Stars.

The chat box is too small, the player pictures are dumb, and one thing that drives me nuts: a bet put on the table, but drives out another player goes into the pot before it is returned to you. Really horribly dumb.

Party is not a cash-strapped site. They ought to take a look at the Stars software (and others) and upgrade it all now. To me, at least, that would make a huge difference.

The other thing is similar to your thought: the variance at Party, for me, has been wild compared to Stars. I can sit there at Stars at low limits for a couple hours and make $100 easier than I can go to Party and pray I avoid the inevitable bad beats to get my bonus. I've done it more than once.

Generalizing? Maybe. But it's just been my personal experience.

ucfryan

03-23-2005, 04:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is it better to adopt a Passive Preflop/ Aggressive postflop mentality against these types of players?

[/ QUOTE ]

What a stupid question, I thought you understood the concepts perfectly?

pokerstudAA

03-23-2005, 04:49 PM

Those guys regarding Hellmuth:

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't been playing poker long, but I definately know I have special talent, I have been playing on Party Poker with play money and I have been destroying everyone , I am very good at reading players and always know when to make the proper move. I've also religiously studied the book of professional poker player and NINE TIME World Series of Poker Champion Phil Helmuth (the best poker player in the world) so much that I pretty much have it memorized which gives me a huge advantage over most players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Promptly followed by:

[ QUOTE ]
So anyways, early on in the tournament, blinds are at 25/50, I have 5000 in chips, it's folded to me on the button and I decided to try to steal the blinds with 9-3 suited and raise to 150. I never play 9-3 because it is a junk hand (only dumb fish on Party Poker play this crap, pros never do), but I had great position and it was also suited.

[/ QUOTE ]

All I can say is WOW

jmrogers7

03-23-2005, 04:49 PM

Why is just about everyone on this forum such an a-hole? The guy asks a simple question and gets blasted unmercifully. Ridiculous.

jmrogers7

03-23-2005, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Im a solid 1/2 and 2/4 player on Crypto and Prima sites...
Here is my bonus clearing story...

Offer of $100 for 1000 raked hands
Then the reload March bonus i put in $100

therefore....
1140 raked hands for $120 dollars.

Just got done clearing the bonus and im withdrawing $80...lol

Can't believe the suckouts ive gotten by PURE garbage(not even suited garbage)

Does anyone notice the huge variance expected if you play here??

I played the 1/2 6max tables that are quoted on here to be "manna from god"

I started on here but left to go BW on other sites and im not sure if i like the games on here...any comments?

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

You fail to understand some of the fundamental concepts of poker.

Adam

[/ QUOTE ]

Another a-hole.

jmrogers7

03-23-2005, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand the concepts perfectly

[/ QUOTE ]
it's funny how wrong this statement is

[ QUOTE ]
im just thinking that in order to clear the bonus PLUS make a profit a reasonable amount of time you have to play at least 2/4 while you clear.

[/ QUOTE ]
also wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, there's another one.

jmrogers7

03-23-2005, 04:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Im not a rookie on this site...
Just frustrated.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're still a rookie at poker apparently, and can expect to be so until you understand some fundamental concepts.

[/ QUOTE ]

A-hole meter reading = 10.

BusterStacks

03-23-2005, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Im not a rookie on this site...
Just frustrated.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're still a rookie at poker apparently, and can expect to be so until you understand some fundamental concepts.

[/ QUOTE ]

A-hole meter reading = 10.

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually the a-hole meter is in direct correlation with the truth meter.

OrangeKing

03-23-2005, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These guys want to hear about it. (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewcategory&gro upID=100015246&Mytoken=20050320232245)

[/ QUOTE ]

yet another:
[ QUOTE ]
dude, the only book you need is the phil hellmuth book. it teachers you all the basics like "top 10 hands" "position" and even gets you into that math crap like pot odds. IMO, math is useless in poker unless you can get good reads on your oppentents. And you can't get good reads on your opponents unless you buy Phils DVD "Guide to bluffing and tells"

[/ QUOTE ]

BRILLIANT!

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy crap, that site makes my head want to explode.

mmbt0ne

03-23-2005, 04:54 PM

It's not our job to coddle those who make these kind of obvious mistakes. People here win money, and teach others to do the same. If you want to get your hand held, go somewhere else.

Synergistic Explosions

03-23-2005, 04:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party to me is like throwing my bankroll into a crowd of drunken frat guys and seeing how much money I can wrestle back by the end of the night. I don't know why my play doesn't suit Party, my stats are fairly decent in Poker Tracker but for some reason me and Party skins just do not mix.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check out Partys new motto.

SURVIVAL OF THE FISHIEST FOR THE GOOD OF THE GAME

Seriously though, just adapt and its a fish fry more often than not.

jmrogers7

03-23-2005, 05:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's not our job to coddle those who make these kind of obvious mistakes. People here win money, and teach others to do the same. If you want to get your hand held, go somewhere else.

[/ QUOTE ]

He wasn't asking to be coddled. Only for advice. Of which he received very little.

This is the M.O. for practically everyone that asks this zoo for any sort of advice. It is followed up with massive amounts of ridicule and flaming. Most of which is unjustified and makes the average reader/poster of this forum not want to participate becuase they fear being flamed by the elitists that preside here.

There is no warm welcoming given by the vast majority of posters here. Only pointless blasting to make yourselves feel as though you are better than most everyone else that posts or reads here.

ucfryan

03-23-2005, 05:04 PM

This (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entry ID=1564216&categoryID=0&IsSticky=0&groupID=1000152 46&Mytoken=20050323130249) thread is hillarious.

[ QUOTE ]
That book is horrible. Daniel N says that following this advice will make you play like a robot and that you'll never beat the games. I looked through it and i couldn't even read through more than a few chapters. it makes poker way too complicated. better to just trust your reads and play the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

solucky

03-23-2005, 05:26 PM

i dont say its rigged, i only say that a 4000 hand loosing streak is usuall and a 11000 hand winning streak is usuall too...thats all. And in fact i have on other/tighter sides lesser streaks

doughhater

03-23-2005, 05:31 PM

Welcome to the forums...

Kill yourself

Starrkitty

03-23-2005, 05:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Check out Partys new motto.

SURVIVAL OF THE FISHIEST FOR THE GOOD OF THE GAME

Seriously though, just adapt and its a fish fry more often than not.

[/ QUOTE ]

So should I tighten up or loosen up. My VP$IP is around 17-18. PFR around 3.5. Total Aggression 1.70. Was averaging around 2 to 3 BB/100 before this latest Party nosedive. This is with about 7000 hands in Poker Tracker.

I think alot of this is just a bad run of cards at Party. Usually when I clear a bonus there I come out at least a little ahead but this round I have just been thrashed completely. This is the biggest downswing I've ever suffered and it's just really really frustrating. 175 BB.

My bonus is done so should I leave Party now or should I stick it out and try to see if my cards improve so I can get some of this easy money. Even with the downswing I've got more than enough BR to stay at my current limit but it still hurts to lose large.

jmrogers7

03-23-2005, 05:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Welcome to the forums...

Kill yourself

[/ QUOTE ]

Another 2+2 a-hole. Congratulations on the dubious honor.

moondogg

03-23-2005, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Welcome to the forums...

Kill yourself

[/ QUOTE ]

Another 2+2 a-hole. Congratulations on the dubious honor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why must you imply that being an a-hole is a bad thing? On behalf of a-holes everywhere, we find this implication offensive and overly judgemental, and hereby request that you go [censored] yourself.

bd8802

03-23-2005, 06:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
These guys want to hear about it. (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewcategory&gro upID=100015246&Mytoken=20050320232245)

[/ QUOTE ]

classic.

mmbt0ne

03-23-2005, 06:01 PM

<blockquote>En réponse à:<hr />
<blockquote>En réponse à:<hr />
These guys want to hear about it. (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewcategory&gro upID=100015246&Mytoken=20050320232245)

[/ QUOTE ]

classic.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the new QLC

OrangeKing

03-23-2005, 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So should I tighten up or loosen up. My VP$IP is around 17-18. PFR around 3.5. Total Aggression 1.70. Was averaging around 2 to 3 BB/100 before this latest Party nosedive. This is with about 7000 hands in Poker Tracker.

I think alot of this is just a bad run of cards at Party. Usually when I clear a bonus there I come out at least a little ahead but this round I have just been thrashed completely. This is the biggest downswing I've ever suffered and it's just really really frustrating. 175 BB.

My bonus is done so should I leave Party now or should I stick it out and try to see if my cards improve so I can get some of this easy money. Even with the downswing I've got more than enough BR to stay at my current limit but it still hurts to lose large.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's something somewhat useful: Your VP$IP looks okay, your agression is a bit low (you should be coming in over 2), and your PFR needs to at least double if you want to maximize your profits - look to be in the 7%-9% range.

I'm not going into more detail here, but check out the mciro-limit forums and the general hold 'em forums for lots more information on these topics.

bd8802

03-23-2005, 06:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]

So should I tighten up or loosen up. My VP$IP is around 17-18. PFR around 3.5. Total Aggression 1.70. Was averaging around 2 to 3 BB/100 before this latest Party nosedive. This is with about 7000 hands in Poker Tracker.

[/ QUOTE ]

you can use the search function to get better answers than I can give. But I think your answer really depends on the limits you are playing. BTW, all my comments are coming from experience up to 1/2. If you are playing higher than that search for people that play the higher limits.

17-18 VPIP is alright. I was around 18 for .5/1 and around 16 for 1/2. Your range is alright, if you consider yourself a good post-flop player. If you think you have some holes in post-flop play, then you might think about tightening up a little.

I think you need to raise more. You might only be calling suited broadways in late position. At least 5% PFR should be your goal.

Your aggression (minus pre-flop) should be above 2.

Just looking at these stats, you are probably too passive. But it is hard to say with just these numbers, also 7000 hands really is not enough for this type of analysis. Post some hands in the forums that correspond to the limit you play, and post PT stats when you have at least 10,000 hands.

bd8802

03-23-2005, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]

It's the new QLC

[/ QUOTE ]

Either that or the new:
http://littleoblivion.com/burningpoo.jpg

Art Vandelay

03-23-2005, 06:26 PM

My god what a site. And people think the fish pond will dry up one day.

OrianasDaad

03-23-2005, 06:39 PM

Original Poster:
[ QUOTE ]
Im a solid 1/2 and 2/4 player on Crypto and Prima sites...
Here is my bonus clearing story...

Offer of $100 for 1000 raked hands
Then the reload March bonus i put in $100

therefore....
1140 raked hands for $120 dollars.

Just got done clearing the bonus and im withdrawing $80...lol

Can't believe the suckouts ive gotten by PURE garbage(not even suited garbage)

Does anyone notice the huge variance expected if you play here??

I played the 1/2 6max tables that are quoted on here to be "manna from god"

I started on here but left to go BW on other sites and im not sure if i like the games on here...any comments?

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

If you've got the roll to play 2/4 on other sites, why didn't you make the maximum deposit to get the full bonus?

That's a pretty harsh swing. Your sample size is, however, just a speck in the cosmos of sample-sizedness. Before you can declare definitively about a room/level/game, you need to observe and/or play there an adequate amount of time.

Garbage is garbage, suited or not. Getting sucked out on is +EV. This is the secret to playing at Party.

You should expect a much higher variance at 6-max, due to the specific and general differences from a ring game. The most obvious one is that your mistakes are greatly magnified, since you have the opportunity to make them more often. This is also during a fairly good Party Bonus period, and there were probably more players who were better than you at the table than you were better than.

If you don't like the games at Party, you need to perform some serious self-examination on why you play poker, and how poker players make money.

jmrogers7:
[ QUOTE ]
Why is just about everyone on this forum such an a-hole? The guy asks a simple question and gets blasted unmercifully. Ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason he got blasted is because many of the people here don't want to hear another "Party sucks because the other players are too bad to beat" story. It simply isn't true, and it is posted far too often.

Why do you care what someone else says to a stranger on an internet forum? Furthermore, why not instead respond to the original poster with a clear and consice breakdown of your own opinion, along with your complaint about how people are treating others here? That would seem to be the non A-hole way to go about it.

Stating everyone who you think is an A-hole just proves that one of us, in fact, is.

siccjay

03-23-2005, 06:43 PM

pokerstudAA

03-23-2005, 06:46 PM

Going around calling everyone a-holes is not very nice. Makes for an entertain place. It makes you mean and nasty. Perhaps an A-hole yourself. You should fit right in.

People around here seem to respond to stupidity with sarcasm or excess stupidity of their own. I like it.

siccjay

03-23-2005, 06:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the most intellegent thing to do on these types of games is try to see the flop as cheaply as possible w/ your premium hands and raise on the turn if something hits you hard.

--Pulled that off of the other web page that was linked on one of the replies.

[/ QUOTE ]

lmao wrong again

Dale

03-23-2005, 07:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the most intellegent thing to do on these types of games is try to see the flop as cheaply as possible w/ your premium hands and raise on the turn if something hits you hard.

--Pulled that off of the other web page that was linked on one of the replies.

[/ QUOTE ]

lmao wrong again

[/ QUOTE ]

Acually, he's closer to the truth than he realizes. The key at Party is understanding exactly how it's rigged. Ever since they've outsourced the customer service and programming to India, you will notice that a Q, particularly a black Q, arrives on the turn much more often. This is for cultural reasons (the same thing happens in the $1/$2 "San Francisco" room on Ultimate, although they use a different group of programmers).

So, the key to profitability is to play hands that will be improved on the turn by a Q. This strategy is sort of like card counting in Blackjack: it doesn't work every time, but it works often enough to give you an edge.

Catt

03-23-2005, 07:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These guys want to hear about it. (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewcategory&gro upID=100015246&Mytoken=20050320232245)

[/ QUOTE ]

classic.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the new QLC

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL - those guy are all us guys. Thread. (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entry ID=1557565&categoryID=0&IsSticky=0&groupID=1000152 46&Mytoken=20050323151602)

03-23-2005, 07:26 PM

i always thought party sucks. I would never play there again! The best place to play is prima cause the games are so easy there. Party is bad beats after bad beats at least at prima you get a hand it holds up.

$DEADSEXE$

03-23-2005, 07:55 PM

I have bonused there several times and have since learned instead of dropping down to the 50/1 or 1/23 games I simply play my normal 2/4,3/6 game
Everytime I've dropped down to 50/1 or 1/2 I've either just barely broke even with the bonus or lost a little.
I'm a steady winner at the 2/4 and 3/6 tables though.

Party is ten times better than Stars for limit poker...nowI'de take Stars sit n go's or tourneys over PArty any day....but for 2/4,3/6,5/10 and 15/30....you'de be nuts to play stars over party....suckouts are good even if it stings a bit at the time...simply add that person to your buddy list and make your money back off him over the next weeks.

chesspain

03-23-2005, 07:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Im a solid 1/2 and 2/4 player on Crypto and Prima sites...

...Can't believe the suckouts ive gotten by PURE garbage(not even suited garbage)

[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading here.

TxBuckeye

03-23-2005, 07:59 PM

Well here, I'll give you someone else to flame.

For the original poster, what you are experiencing is quite normal at Party I believe. Since Christmastime especially, when all the bonuses really started drawing players in, the variance has become much more pronounced. I think it is, in fact, due to having TO many fish in the pond. I think of it this way, if you have two people at your table that are completely clueless and play any two cards, the odds of them hitting a flop aren't that great. If you have five or six such people, the odds are much greater that one of them hit the flop no matter how uncoordinated it is. As such, you tend to see many worse hands win than you would expect. It isn't going to be any one person hitting them, in fact they probably all will lose money. But, the overall cumulative effect is that many of your better holdings fall due to this schooling factor. Is this a good or bad thing? Good obviously in the long run. In the short term however, it can appear devestating after a few bad sessions.

htc1278

03-23-2005, 09:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Those guys regarding Hellmuth:

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't been playing poker long, but I definately know I have special talent, I have been playing on Party Poker with play money and I have been destroying everyone , I am very good at reading players and always know when to make the proper move. I've also religiously studied the book of professional poker player and NINE TIME World Series of Poker Champion Phil Helmuth (the best poker player in the world) so much that I pretty much have it memorized which gives me a huge advantage over most players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Promptly followed by:

[ QUOTE ]
So anyways, early on in the tournament, blinds are at 25/50, I have 5000 in chips, it's folded to me on the button and I decided to try to steal the blinds with 9-3 suited and raise to 150. I never play 9-3 because it is a junk hand (only dumb fish on Party Poker play this crap, pros never do), but I had great position and it was also suited.

[/ QUOTE ]

All I can say is WOW

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure this was a 2+2'er. We are infiltrating their site and feeding the fishes...

PokerBob

03-23-2005, 09:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Im a solid 1/2 and 2/4 player

[/ QUOTE ]

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

OrangeKing

03-23-2005, 09:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These guys want to hear about it. (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewcategory&gro upID=100015246&Mytoken=20050320232245)

[/ QUOTE ]

classic.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the new QLC

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL - those guy are all us guys. Thread. (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entry ID=1557565&categoryID=0&IsSticky=0&groupID=1000152 46&Mytoken=20050323151602)

[/ QUOTE ]

It was quite obvious the guy trying to promote Hellmuth and trash Sklansky was clearly a 2+2er. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I felt bad for the guy who couldn't stop trying to correct him...hopefully he'll figure out the joke before he makes a few of them think!

skoal2k4

03-23-2005, 09:19 PM

Valuable information... use it wisely!!! Enjoy! (http://www.partypokercracked.com/) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Moyer

03-24-2005, 03:41 AM

Anyone who feels they have been overly criticized need only click on the "Beginners" link in the column on their left, where hand-holding is common courtesy.

So stop bitching you [censored] whiner!

mushi

03-24-2005, 10:51 AM

It seems to me that every time I come to the zoo I end up reading this non sense posts good for nothing. I am drawn to them like a fu**ink magnet. Why o why is it.

Oh /images/graemlins/blush.gif I know because the other "serious" posts starts like "QQ on a tight opponent, low content" so at least I get to laugh a lil bit. Correction some posts or should I say the replays to them are really really funny. Since non of my friends play poker no one understands this jokes this zoo is the best virtual community in the whole fuc**ing jungle

mushi /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/spade.gif

JerBear77

03-24-2005, 01:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok ok...i get it now....enough of the flaming....GEEEZZZZ

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me man, you haven't really been flamed in this thread.

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously though,

Is it better to adopt a Passive Preflop/ Aggressive postflop mentality against these types of players?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want to minimize your variance, then yes.
If you want to make more money, then no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally a quote that makes sense and is truthful without being flamed :-)

Put the money in Paradise and made back all I lost in Party.

Guess it was a learning experience for Fish that bite hard.

offTopic

03-24-2005, 01:53 PM

I've won a fair amount of money there over the years, but last night, having forgotten about the bonus, I bought in for $500 at 12:34 am EST, and was not credited with the bonus. So, yeah, for now, party blows.

Beavis68

03-24-2005, 06:34 PM

I dont think party is rigged, but the games there are hard for me to beat, it could just be varaince as I still have not playing a lot of limit ring games.

The first 1000 hands or so I played of O8b, I was winning about about 10bb/100, but I have given half of that back for the last 1000 hands.

For LHE, I havent played that much there, but I get my ass handed to me when I do.

Lose the big pots, and win the small ones. I have decided I am going to stick to O8b to clear the bonus from now on, and not try holdem for a while.

I think the wild games throw my off my game.

Gamblor

03-28-2005, 04:52 PM

mushi, OOT. OOT, mushi.

kapw7

03-28-2005, 06:48 PM

It feels good when you are at the receiving end though:

~1300 hands @ .5/1 and 17.1BB/100 (January bonus)

MicroBob

03-28-2005, 07:04 PM

didn't read all the responses but i don't think there was much 'overly' harsh criticism going on.

original poster does NOT understand some fundamental concepts regarding variance, samplke-size, etc. it is also EXTREMELY likely that he is not playing his hands ideally either (since he asked about trying to play more passively on such tables I think this is pretty obvious).

There are many newbie's on here asking REALLY ridiculous questions who CLEARLY don't understand MANY fundamental concepts who need to KNOW they don't know what the hell they're talking about before they should try to move on.

I don't know of any other way to tell someone that they are missing some KEY concepts other than to flat-out TELL them. I try to elaborate sometimes (duh....I elabortate ALL the time) but the player still insists that even though they understand that 3k hands isn't a lot they still 'feel' like something isn't going right even though they KNOW they are playing their cards 'correctly'.

Well, it is 99% likely that you are not playing your cards terribly well....your VP can look reasonable...your PFR might be a little bit low (as it is for most) but still be reasonable. Aggression factor can be wherever (since it is VERY deceiving)....but if you aren't raising for value when you should be and getting out of the way when you should be then you are going to cost yourself money.

Posting individual hands is a decent way of going about figuring out whether you are doing this or not.

Most people who just ASSUME they are playing their hands correctly are probably not.

In other words, most people THINK they play their hands correctly but a vast majority of them are WRONG (hence, the reason it can still be profitable for a fairly mediocre player such as yours-truly).

After awhile of not beating the 1/2 you have to stop making excuses about the opponents, the site, the way the cards come out, etc etc....and start pointing the finger at your own play.