more fish stix [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

KidV

03-23-2005, 02:18 PM

So here I pushed pre-flop. I am assuming that it was an unneccesary risk for this early, but like I said I am a fish.
Hopefully admitting I have a problem is the 1st step.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t670)
Hero (t690)
UTG (t810)
UTG+1 (t1110)
UTG+2 (t775)
MP1 (t1335)
MP2 (t360)
MP3 (t730)
CO (t760)
Button (t760)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls t30, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls t30, 1 fold, MP2 calls t30, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to t690 (All-In), UTG calls t660, UTG+2 folds, MP2 folds, SB folds.

Flop: (t1470) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t1470) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1470) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1470

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad Kd (high card, ace).
UTG has 5s 5c (three of a kind, fives).
Outcome: UTG wins t1470.

wbrumfiel

03-23-2005, 02:37 PM

That was a pretty terrible call by the guy with 55. Unless he is CERTAIN you have AK or AQ in which case he is still only a small favorite. With anything else that youd push with JJ-AA he is severly dominated
pokenum -h ad ks - 5h 5c
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Ad 767007 44.79 938751 54.82 6546 0.38 0.450
5c 5h 938751 54.82 767007 44.79 6546 0.38 0.550

shoeman

03-23-2005, 02:38 PM

I'm not so sure this was a terrible idea. I would want to raise here but the question is how much. At the standard 3xBB + 2xlimpers that would make the raise about 300 which is getting close to half your stack. I really think you need to check here and play a flop or push all-in. Personally, I would opt for the all-in.

I've done this exact move a few times and it almost always takes the pot uncontested. I'd like to say that I'm surprised 55 called here...but at the 10s, I'm not surprised at all.

beeyjay

03-23-2005, 05:03 PM

With all those callers in front of you and it still this early in the tourney I would just limp in here. With that flop I would then check/fold it when I completely missed my hand.

You have to contemplate why you would raise. Your hand is far from a made hand so I wouldn't advocate raising against 3 callers for value. This early in the tourney with 3 callers already a 3BB raise is not going to thin the field significantly so that reason is out the window. Plus 90 chips is just too much of your stack to commit with 3 completely un definable hands. They could be limping with practically anything in this situation.

So yeah, I suggest this early in the tourney limping and trying to hit at least tptk on the flop, idealy with a flush/straight draw of some sort. Even as weak tight as this play seems I feel it is the correct one.

Scuba Chuck

03-23-2005, 06:20 PM

Yeah, I agree that this was a terrible call by the villain. But back to OP's question.

There are two schools of thought. You can just check here, and "see what happens." Unfortunately, if the texture of the board benefits you (like an A or a K hits), it will be difficult to know where you stand, as it is difficult to put your opponents on a hand. Second you can raise, to 3 or 5 x's BB, to try and isolate this hand down to fewer opponents.

One difficult issue with raising is that you will be out of position after the flop comes, making it difficult to see how your opponents faired on the flop.

Pushing is a good tactic here, (to take all the blinds and bets - not because you expect to be called), but it probably is more effective at the higher levels.

If it were me, I know I'd raise this hand to 150 chips. You'll probably be able to isolate this hand to just one other player, and perhaps a continuation bet or check-raise post flop. But, there is no single right answer.