Taking a beating with small pocket pairs....part 1 [Archive]

View Full Version : Taking a beating with small pocket pairs....part 1

droolie

03-23-2005, 12:53 PM

Hi. This is my first post in this forum. Sorry if this is too basic but I really need some advice...

I'm new to Party's 1/2 six max. About 2 months ago I played a few thousand hands at Absolutes .50/1 and had very good results. I was able to run over the loose passive players there with good aggression. This has not worked so well at party 6-max so far and am taking a bit of a beating. I don't seem to be able to fold enough HU (W$ASD 42% through 1700 hands) I know I have taken some unbelieveble bad beats in my very small smaple size that could easily have turned my red numbers to black but I just feel lost too much for my own comfort. I specifically feel lost HU. This is a problem because I do many isolation raises. I'm very comfortable in these situations in the full ring game but the increased aggression at 6-max has me out of sorts. I'm becoming a sherrif and not trusting my reads calling down with bottom pair or A high... It's like I think everyone is bluffing. Conversly I take my overcard bluffs way too far and get called down with bottom pair all the time.

This is a hand where I folded the river but probably I shouldn't have...

Hero is VP$IP 23% with a pfr 15% aggregate postflop aggro around 2ish (too low? way too low?? if so what streets specifically need to be higher. All three of mine hover at 2ish with the flop slightly higher)

The villian in this hand was had identical VP$IP and pfr of 25% through 50 hands or so. I decided to isolate raise hoping he was raising light.... Is this too weak of a hand to do this with? I probably would have done this with pocket 2's /images/graemlins/blush.gif (I'm taking a beating with pocket 77's too. part 2 to come)

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.
Ugly flop here. I think to myself that there is a very good chance villian connected with this in some way by either pairing or having a higher spade than me. The pot is big enough and the spade in my hand makes me decide to try hanging around for the flush draw. Should I raise here? I didn't raise because I didn't want to get three bet on a bluff and fold the best hand... How about a fold?? Is that too weak tight? I really had no idea what to do.
Turn: (4.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.
Blank...Still chasing the flush. Again I'm lost here. No idea what the best move is.

River: (6.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero folds.
If fold here but looking at it today I hate it. I hung around this long to fold the river despite never challenging him? I must have momentarily lost my mind... If given a second chance I would certainly call this down. Oh well.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

wjmooner

03-23-2005, 01:20 PM

1- Aggression factor shouldn't be too much higher than 2 at 1/2 6 max or you will find yourself betting into lots of people who won't fold bottom pair and you lose with your unimproved AK. I think most people would agree that hyper-aggro aggression works better at higher levels.

2- I rarely raise 22-77 preflop, and I would never three bet with these holdings. With low pocket pairs at 1/2 I'll limp from any position IF I think I can get in for one bet in a 4-5 handed pot. My PT stats show every pair is winning except for 33 and 22, and those are both basically even.

3. Regarding your hand, I fold preflop. If I 3-bet I either fold the flop or call the flop and turn, hoping my 5 is good for the flush.

Against a 24/15 you are at best hoping for a coin flip with the isolation, and if you put him on overcards that flop probably hit him hard.

WJ

Alobar

03-23-2005, 01:38 PM

I'm prolly folding this PF, even if he is raising light he is UTG so it might not be as light as normal, and you only have 55. Unless he has shown that he is incredibly weak tight post flop, I just wait for a better chance.

Given that you didnt, I dunno, I think post flop its close either way between calling down and not calling down.

Alobar

03-23-2005, 01:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Against a 24/15 you are at best hoping for a coin flip with the isolation, and if you put him on overcards that flop probably hit him hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with folding pre flop, but I dont like the whole coin flip statement people put out as the reason to not do this. Its only a coin flip if it goes all the way to the river. You get alot of your equity in spots like this when the flop comes up bad for him, and it never goes to the river.

Chizoad

03-23-2005, 02:12 PM

I have no problem with 3-betting this particular opponent with 55 here. Assuming he has no pocket pair, he's most likely going to miss the flop, and you can put the pressure on. I would probably fold 22 preflop. BTW is his PFR really 25%?

I'd raise the flop and try to get to a cheap showdown. If 3-bet then call and hope to hit the flush, but I think you're somewhat safe against the 3-bet on this flop unless he has a monster.

Call the river and likely lose, you're probably good 15% of the time which makes the call close given the pot size.

wjmooner

03-23-2005, 02:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with folding pre flop, but I dont like the whole coin flip statement people put out as the reason to not do this. Its only a coin flip if it goes all the way to the river. You get alot of your equity in spots like this when the flop comes up bad for him, and it never goes to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I just meant that if you raise you are basically putting him on overcards, so if the flop comes 872 you think you hand is in good shape and it doesn't reach the river. Here the flop had a great chance of hitting him.

WJ