optimal preflop pushing range for 25NL 6max?

[meow_meow]

Lets say you wanted to play the 25NL 6max with a strategy that involves either pushing, limping, or folding preflop.

What is the optimal range of hands for pushing? By optimal, I mean in terms of winrate, so Shania-type considerations are to be included.

I'm thinking, as a bare minimum, AA-88 and AK, but maybe extending as far as any pp and AK-AJ. Once I get some kind of concensus on this I'm going to do a 10k test (sample size be damned), just for fun (and to break up the monotony of 100NL nut-peddling).

Thoughts?

[sourbeaver]

I have been doing this exact experiment with 10-max for about 5k hands up to now. 6-max might be even more profitable with a tweaked strategy.

Have you given any thought to buying in for less than 25, falsely advertising that you've got no clue ? I think that's an important parameter to consider, as it might get you many more calls with hands that pray for them.

[meow_meow]

I hadn't thought about using a short buy, and I was sticking to 6max because obviously the likelyhood of being dominated is much smaller.

Anyway, I tried it out for a couple of hours just now, 8-tabling, using AA-88, AK, AQ as my all-in hands.
Over 1200 hands, went all-in 66 times preflop.
Was called 20 times by someone with more than $5. Of those 20 callers, 5 had legit hands (AA, KK, JJx2, TT), 2 had smaller PPs (66, 22), 4 had A-high (AT,9,8,5), 5 had K-high (KQx2,T,9,8), the rest were Q-high or worse (QJ, QT, T9 and a fabulous 73o that busted my AQ for a full buy-in).

So 65% of the time I was up against a hand I was guaranteed to be a favorite against. 75% of the time coin-flip at worst.

Net: +2.8BB/hand
(sample size disclaimer, blah blah blah)

[sourbeaver]

For 6-max, let's see...

Assuming we're building an all-in strategy (some plays would be more +EV, but an all-in strategy works great if you're 8-tabling).

AA KK QQ : Push. Perhaps limp-push UTG if you've got a frequent raiser at the table. QQ will be in trouble more often but you still love calls by anything other than AA KK and AK (even AK is giving you a bit of EV), and these calls come often at 6-max, as you demonstrated.

AK : I don't know about AK because it differs greatly from QQ when all-in preflop. Instead of dominating everything under AK, it is dominated by every PP also. Perhaps the benefit of pushing with AK, making our table image crazier, is still +EV though.

AQ : Is this an all-in winner ? Maybe for image considerations.

JJ-99 : An all-in here probably gets us stuck in coin flip or dominated situations more often than in dominating situations.

That's where I have trouble balancing. Obviously, we want to go all-in often so that we increase our chances of getting called by lesser hands (players think we're fools). But many marginal all-ins might be costing us more than the added benefit of image. I guess testing could provide answers.

What I like about 10-max is that I can call 22-JJ to spike a set, and implied odds are almost always superb. The downside is that I don't often get calls on my AA-KK all-ins.

I could see the multi-table strategy develop this way :

- All-in oriented in 6-max. Pushing often, marginal hands giving us EV by making other players call more often when we have huge hands.

- Limp oriented in 10-max. Calling 22-JJ for sets. Playing SCs, suited 1-gapers, suited 2-gapers, non-suited connectors from the CO and Button. Raising a nice chunk w AA KK and QQ, or simply push preflop. Limping AK and AQ.

[meow_meow]

Sounds good, but I think you are looking at AK all wrong. It is only dominated by AA and KK, a coinflip against any other pp, and dominating against any other hand.

[PinkSteel]

So acknowledging sample size disclaimer, blah blah blah, that's got to be an economic loser, right? +2.8BB/hand is profitable, but historically you've probably done better playing those out?

(Caveat: I am a newbie muppet.)

[sourbeaver]

It is absolutely clear that this is not an optimal strategy. It might become optimal if you factor in the multi-tabling and rakeback.

If you can make 5BB/100 playing 2 tables with your own style, you're better off making 2BB/100 playing 8 tables with a "dummy" strategy, strictly monetarily speaking.

Of course, it is much better to be making those 5BBs and improving your game so that you can move up limits and make even more by playing your game then by applying a system.

I think we're mostly interested in the testing and tweaking of such a strategy, for curiosity and fun (of course if we can still make some money off of it, then all the better).

It might even be an okay way to build a bankroll, although I would suggest playing normally to get your skills up as your BR grows.

My main reason for being so interested in this experiment is that I will soon find myself playing poker full-time (for the summer only, don't worry /images/graemlins/tongue.gif). And so, I'd like to elaborate a NL25 strategy that would allow me to put a couple relaxing hours (pushing all-in or folding is pretty relaxing /images/graemlins/laugh.gif) in while earning a decent rate. Playing 8-9 hours of regular poker a day can be excruciating at times.

[zaxx19]

Are we talking about playing poker on this board or some magic formulas that will make you money......

I see some troubling modes of thought developing.

If you guys are looking for a simple way to make 15 bucks an Hr there are simpler and less risky ways to do it than figure out some formula for online poker.

[sourbeaver]

Agreed 100%. Just having fun.

[Position]

[ QUOTE ]
If you guys are looking for a simple way to make 15 bucks an Hr there are simpler and less risky ways to do it than figure out some formula for online poker.


[/ QUOTE ]

There are?! Serious question: What?! (I naturally make >that at online poker, but I'm certainly curious for friends & acquaintances looking for easy money.)