Is the Commerce Slowing Down???

The Commerce Club in Los Angeles is losing business it would appear. The games are starting later and later and they aren't lasting nearly as long. Is the rake finally taking its toll? The Bicycle Club has two 20-40 Stud Eight or better games now, and the Commerce is lucky to get one and keep it going. The 15-30 and 20-40 stud games are much weaker than they used to be and they haven't had a second 20-40 stud game in quite some time. The hold'em games from 15-30 up to 80-160 are about the same, but they are starting later as well. They break sooner too. I wonder what's going on?

[snakehead]

it could be because I haven't been there for a few weeks.

[Wildbill]

I went in there a week ago for a quick visit with a friend playing there. He said it was because the tournament action was elsewhere and that people were playing the new hosted games at the Hustler. Cycles mostly, the Commerce was going strong for so long after the move to the new room that it was inevitable to have some fatigue. You think its dead at Commerce, you should have seen the Bellagio recently. I was there on Monday night and was amazed. There was 2 15-30 going and one very very tough looking 30-60. The tables upstairs were all half full at best with the usuals playing mostly. The rest of the room was dead too, maybe only 10 tables going downstairs. Monday's aren't that great, but that was maybe as slow as I can remember it there except for the mid-December time.

[mikelow]

I haven't been to the Commerce lately, but on my Bellagio visit
the 30-60 would start then stop after about a half hour. Only two 15-30 games on a Saturday afternoon. I am planning a visit to Casino Arizona by year-end.

[Ray Zee]

some of the casinos have raised their rakes in the near past. it takes a little time but soon the marginal players that were needed to start games and keep them going may get tapped out. when that happens the room slows down and the end result is less rake. its alot like taking all the fish out of a pond and then wondering why the fishing has slowed down.

[mikelow]

Could that be happening at the Bellagio and Mirage with the $4 rake?

[M2d]

Just a guess, but I think that the Bellagio and the Mirage, with all their tourist traffic would be hurt less by rake increases than would a locals dependant room like Commerce. This isn't to say that marginal locals that are needed to start games in Vegas won't get squeezed out, but they do have a lot of "hey Marge, they're playin' poker" types that don't care about the rake, and who'll lose their bankrolls before the rake factor takes effect.

[M.B.E.]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Could that be happening at the Bellagio and Mirage with the $4 rake?

[/ QUOTE ]The increased rake still is incredibly low -- especially considering that the third and fourth dollars are not taken until the pot is of moderate size. Is there anywhere else in the world, other than online, that you can play 15-30 or 20-40 so cheaply?

(And online you don't get free drinks.)

What baffles me is that in the "big" games at the Bellagio upper level, where they're playing 1500-3000 and whatnot, they collect a time charge of only $10/half-hour.

[Ray Zee]

MBE, thats true it is low compared to others but it is 25% higher than it was and before it was real tough for many regulars to keep their head above the water. so when you start to lose the regulars your games go with them. the low stakes tourists will still play but wont start games and most cardrooms need the bigger games as they go for long streaches where as the small games break easily in the evening.
and just wait and see as these new places that rake so much, imo will ruin their markets as the new players wont be able to move up to higher games . and since you wont have many winning players once the easy money is gone they will have very little in games higher than 5%10.

[andyfox]

Commerce may be dependent on locals, but there are an awful lot of people who live in the L.A. area and a lot of tourists who come to the casinos. So I'm not sure the rake would hurt Commerce more than a Vegas casino.

No question that the economy sucks here in L.A. now; it's anecdotal, but the streets and malls seem a lot less crowded than normal for this type of year, and the stores have a lot less merchandise due to the West Coast port problem. A lot of businesses in L.A. are slow right now.

Anyway, I'm not sure Commerce is really slowing down. I was there Monday and the Friday before that and it seemed just as busy as ever. But I think there are a couple of floormen who would tell me the truth about business, I'll see what they say within the next week.