Donkey tricks - pocket pair capping - PP15/30

[mach3]

Not sure if I'm behind the times here, but I've noticed a ridiculous amount of people capping small to medium PP's preflop. I'm not talking about the tricky player who 3 bets 6's with position for isolation, or checkraises a ragged flop. These people cap or raise very aggressively. I've always noted them, but am encountering 2 or 3 at every table. Any ideas on the best way to make them pay - as this can't be +EV. Perhaps just calling the 3bet and pounding if you hit the flop? There was a similar thread a couple of weeks ago - but it was aimed at raising small PP's in LP for higher limit games.

Some examples below:

In this hand I wasn't sure where I stood. I had noted the villian as one of the infamous cappers and he held true to form. I considered raising the flop, but decided to wait until the turn. Some sort of alarm bell went off on the turn (I swear I could hear him squealing through the monitor when his 2 outer hit) and my gut insisted I merely call down.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.66 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (7.33 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (9.33 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.33 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG+2 has 7c 7s (three of a kind, sevens).
Hero has Jd Js (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins 11.33 BB. </font>


The best is when doneky's collide.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero folds, BB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, CO calls.

River: (16 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, CO calls.

Final Pot: 22 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has 8c 8s (three of a kind, eights).
CO has 5d 5s (three of a kind, fives).
Outcome: BB wins 22 BB. </font>

[droidboy]

Player whines about his opponents raising and capping with pocket pairs, then asks:

Any ideas on the best way to make them pay - as this can't be +EV.

Why can't this be +EV?

- Andrew

www.pokerstove.com (http://www.pokerstove.com)

[mach3]

I don't think I was whining, as I and all other multitablers experience such things all day long. I invited comments not pithy remarks.

If you want to ram and jam 5's preflop, please tell me where you're playing. If you'd like to explain why you think either of those plays are correct, I'm listening, otherwise stop wasting people's time.

[droidboy]

[ QUOTE ]
If you want to ram and jam 5's preflop, please tell me where you're playing. If you'd like to explain why you think either of those plays are correct, I'm listening, otherwise stop wasting people's time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Paradise 40/80, and Stars 30/60. And yes, I'm going to raise from the cutoff with 55, and call two cold back to me. And if you raise from the cutoff, I'm going to isolate you with 55.

- Andrew

www.pokerstove.com (http://www.pokerstove.com)

[mach3]

You'll note from the first post this is PP 15/30 which is a VERY different game then PStars 30/60 (no experience in Paradise 40/80) in terms of trickery. And believe me, these are not players I respect. I posted 2 instances where I happened to lose because they were referenced in my session log. I also beat several of these hands - my only concern is extracting the most money or losing the least. If I'm 3 betting or capping from mid to late position at PP15/30, believe me your 55 isolation play is not going to take down the pot often.


I think every good player will 3 bet a small PP from the blind or LP to isolate a loose raiser, that is not the case here. I think good players 3bet or cap a PP if several people enter the pot due to the implied odds of a set - again, not the case here.