QQ UTG; two-suited K high flop

[Ivanapolis]

15/30 Partypoker:
You raise utg with the Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, two middle positon players and the button call, both blinds fold. Flop is the K /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. You bet and both middle players fold and the button raises. What do you do? Does it make any difference if the raiser is a semimaniac or a "normal" player.

[poker1O1]

fold, being 4 handed with an over card and a flush draw, there are too many hands u are already losing to or will lose to.

[Paluka]

This is an ugly situation. Either the guy has it, or he doesn't. I tend to call down bad players and fold to good players in this spot.

[mmcd]

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This is an ugly situation. Either the guy has it, or he doesn't. I tend to call down bad players and fold to good players in this spot.

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After an open raise and a couple of cold-calls, a good player is more likely to have suited cards and a bad player is more likely to have a hand like KJo, no?

[Paluka]

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This is an ugly situation. Either the guy has it, or he doesn't. I tend to call down bad players and fold to good players in this spot.

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After an open raise and a couple of cold-calls, a good player is more likely to have suited cards and a bad player is more likely to have a hand like KJo, no?

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You saying bad players don't enjoy suited cards?

[mmcd]

More along the lines of "good players don't enjoy dominated kings". I don't think the bad player is necessarily less likely to have a flush draw in this spot, rather a good player is less likely to have a king. Also, a good player could also be taking a stab here with a random pocket pair, esp. if the PFR is an auto-bet type.

[Ivanapolis]

Thanks for the replies! Good analysis, mmcd.
Because of his prior actions I ranked the button as semimanic, so I called it down to the river and lost agaist the K /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/crazy.gif. But even agaist a "normal" opponent it would have been difficult to lay it down, because there is a two-flush on board. There are already 12,5 small bets in the pot. I think it does not make sence to reraise, because you will find out nothing at all - he can cap it with two hearts and call with KQ... So I called it to the showdown.
My opinion about it: I have to call down against every opponent. But if the flop would have been K /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif you might plan to fold. What do you guys think about that?

[Paluka]

Interesting, on a rainbow flop I sorta like calling down good players and folding against bad players.

[highland]

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fold, being 4 handed with an over card and a flush draw, there are too many hands u are already losing to or will lose to.

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It's only 2 handed when it's raised.

Against a semimaniac call this down no matter what cards hit. Against a "normal" player, call down for sure if no heart hits on the turn. You may also want to lead the river if your opponent is passive on the river. He may call a bet, but check behind some worse hands, while not raising a K, which he would have value-bet anyhow.

cheers,
highland