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Jimbo
10-09-2002, 01:09 PM
As promised my Ronnie Allen story follows:

Ronnie is known the world over as one of the best one pocket players who ever lived. He is a magician with the cue ball and proficient in all shots required in this game. It is for these very reasons that he had trouble getting action at his best game. He was in town for a national tournament many years ago and like everyone else looking for side action to make the trip worthwhile. As normally happened he got steered to me since I was known to play pretty high stakes although it was also known noone who matched up with me would ever be stealing.

Our "house" game was golf, played on a 5'x10' English snooker table using standard sized pool balls rather the smaller snooker balls. For those of you not familiar with golf on a billiard table each pocket is numbered one through six and the first player to pocket his designated ball in all six holes in mumerical order wins. Typically the bottom right corner pocket (as observed from standing behind the headstring is number one and moving clockwise two through six with the 3rd and final holes always being side pockets.

Ronnie knew in a heads up match on an unfamiliar snooker table he would have a difficult time beating me. He suggested scotch doubles golf with him as his own partner and me coupled with Bobby Baldwin of Bartlesville, OK.(Not the same Bob Baldwin associated with the Bellagio). This should normally have given Ronnie an edge due to the difficulty of conflicting strategies among partners as well as a substantial difference in playing style. Not to mention that Ronnie was certainly not a criple at any game he chose to play. We agreed to play for $100/game and $10/hickey (foul) per man. In other words Ronnie was playing for $200/$20 and Bobby and I each played for $100/$10.

Though I had been playing poorly Bobby had carried our team to three victorys with three for Ronnie as well. We were still ahead about a hundred each due to the disparity in hickeys in our games won versus Ronnie. He was craved for action and asked to pump the bet to $200/$20 each and we agreed. It is during this game that the real fun begins.

Bobby broke for our team and ran the first two holes while missing the three hole. Getting stuck on the three hole is normally a big disadvantage in golf. Ronnie lagged close to the one hole playing a standard safety at the same time. Now our ball was on the far end of the table a foot or so daigonally out from the four hole. Ronnie had left the cue ball at the oposite end of the table near the rail in close proximity to the one hole nearly 12 feet away from my object ball. I chalked up and attempted a 5 rail shot with our ball travelling close to 30 feet hoping to get it close. Well it dropped in the pocket with perfect shape for me on the four hole. We used the six spot wheras some areas of the country spot on the five spot dead center of the table. From the six spot on the four hole with an ideal angle it is not at all uncommon for even average players to run out. Nearly needlees to say I ran four and out in another 45 seconds or so and Ronnie was hopping mad.

He accused me of sandbagging hollering "Nobody snaps in a five rail and runs out in this game!" It was a funny sight to see this world champion squealing after going to all the trouble of having the best of it against Bobby and I. Although he calmed down some after this he began to play me so safe on my innings that Bobby was able to take over the game and win the next two nearly single handed. During those next two games we played I probably only pocketed one or two balls in the correct holes but it was the 5 rail followed by running out that put Ronnie on tilt and brought home the cash.

Hope you enjoyed the story,

Jimbo

ps: I have one to tell real soon entitled "Hustling an Inanimate Object".

HDPM
10-09-2002, 02:26 PM
Golf on a 5x10 with pool balls? Even thinking about running the first three holes? You guys play waaaaay too good. Then you run out after a 5 rail bank? I'll play you $1 9-ball if you give me all nine balls and the break. Maybe.

imported_Chuck Weinstock
10-09-2002, 05:11 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Bobby broke for our team and ran the first two holes while missing the three hole. Getting stuck on the three hole is normally a big disadvantage in golf. Ronnie lagged close to the one hole playing a standard safety at the same time. Now our ball was on the far end of the table a foot or so daigonally out from the four hole. Ronnie had left the cue ball at the oposite end of the table near the rail in close proximity to the one hole nearly 12 feet away from my object ball. I chalked up and attempted a 5 rail shot with our ball travelling close to 30 feet hoping to get it close. Well it dropped in the pocket with perfect shape for me on the four hole. We used the six spot wheras some areas of the country spot on the five spot dead center of the table. From the six spot on the four hole with an ideal angle it is not at all uncommon for even average players to run out. Nearly needlees to say I ran four and out in another 45 seconds or so and Ronnie was hopping mad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jimbo...could you translate some of this for us novices? Also, why is getting stuck on the 3 hole normally a big disadvantage?

Thanks,

Chuck

baggins
10-10-2002, 03:12 AM
i am no pool expert, but i do play, and can show up a significant number of bar players. i suspect that being stuck on the three hole is a big disadvantage because the side pockets are harder to make shots in, given the orientation of the table, and the fact that you probably missed it in a way that leaves the ball in a hard spot to shoot it in the 3hole on the next attempt. what i don't understand is the whole golf idea. i get the holes, but im fuzzy on what ball you use after you pocket the first one. and what kind of break do you use? is it a full rack? and then you keep respotting one ball? or you play solid/stripe and go in order of holes? or do you only rack 2 balls? im so confused...

HDPM
10-10-2002, 10:53 AM
In golf each player has his own ball. The first player to break starts with the cue ball in the D and his ball on the foot spot, or six spot as Jimbo said, since the 6-ball or pink ball goes there in snooker. Each subsequent player also breaks that way, but then there are other balls near the 1-hole. Running the first few holes is a very tough thing to do. Jimbo also said some people use the middle spot, but I never saw it played that way. You have to play your ball into each of the pockets in order. Strategy, defense, position, etc... are critical.

Allan
10-10-2002, 11:09 AM
so after you sink your first ball it goes back to the foot spot for the same break but hole #2?

Allan

Jimbo
10-10-2002, 11:58 AM
Many thanks to Baggins and HDPM for their explanations. They were both correct in the information provided. I realized that anyone unfamiliar with the game of golf might become confused by details of my initial post but I did not want to be accused by Ray Zee of posting long winded storys like SPM. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

I will clarify the additional questions raised by Baggins, Allan and HDPM here. Each player (team) has one ball assigned to them. When this ball is pocketed it is spotted back on the 6 spot if it is still their turn. If a foul was committed on this turn the ball will stay off the table until that persons turn is up again. It is therefore possible to have 5 players in a game with only 1 persons' ball left on the table for a specific inning. All fouls do not necessarily remove your ball from the table but this gets quite complicated and is also subject to regional differences.

Golf according to Hoyle would be to count the total number of strokes required by each individual player to pocket all six holes in turn. However though I have seen these rules in writing since learning golf in 1967 I have never seen it played that way for money.

Team golf can also be played with each player on a team with an individual ball. The team must complete both balls in all six holes to win the game. This is good for additional hickeys but with more than 2 teams a single game can last for several hours.

HDPM, one of my road hustles was to play golf by any local rules they wanted but to change the spot to the 5 spot in the center of the table. Without knowledge of the normal angles and safeties local players quickly lost any home field advantage they may have had (such as cloth speed and roll-off).

Please feel free to ask any additional questions which either I or the other posters did not clarify. On a side note I have run all six holes using snooker balls numerous times but using pool balls I have done it perhaps 4 times in my entire career. I have run 3, 4 and 5 holes out many times too numerous to count. Normally if you break and run all the holes out the stakes double and all players in the game whether they took a turn or not pay the winner. Also there is a penalty called "protection" that is used if the game is three handed or greater. This means that if the man following you wins the game everyone pays him for the win and for thier hickeys but you would pay double the game amount. An example a $10/game with $1/hickeys, would cost you $13 if you lost and had three hickeys but if you "sold out" (your man won the game by following you) your fee would be $10+$10 (for protection) plus the $3 in hickeys for a total of $23. This can make the game extremely cutthroat at times and is used to encourage you to help others when they are in danger so you will receive help in turn when needed as well as to play safe.

Jimbo

baggins
10-12-2002, 04:58 AM
sounds like a freakin blast of a game. i wonder if i could ever get any of my friends to play. i doubt it. they won't even play defensively. they think a gentleman's game is to always try your hardest to hit a ball in the hole...