Slavic v bernie turn decision

[bernie]

Slavic posted this in small stakes. After thinking a bit, I thought it might be interesting to see how one would play this from my side of the coin. So I'm hijacking it. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

This may also help answer some of the questions in the other thread about me recommending slavic to fold the turn. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Mucks 10-20, great table.

Table just got shorthanded as 3 players got up to get crying towels, lick wounds, maybe play chicken tic tac toe.(which is funny to watch, btw, just how stupid some people actually play that game)

Folded to me in CO, I open with KQo. /images/graemlins/grin.gif Slavic does his pre-action routine that he does when I open in front of him and then promptly 3 bets my ass. /images/graemlins/frown.gif SB, a weakie cold calls. BB folds, (actually, i thought he called and also folded on the turn, but I'll keep it like this), I call.

3 to the flop.

Flop: 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Checked around. SB looks miffed, /images/graemlins/confused.gif as usual.

Turn: J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Checked to me, I fire out /images/graemlins/laugh.gif, capt. chipsalot insta-raises /images/graemlins/grin.gif, SB /images/graemlins/confused.gif, now mouth a little agape folds.

What do you do, and if you go to the river, what is your plan?

b

[slavic]

personaly, I would have folded preflop.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
personaly, I would have folded preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in the tea leaves on that day. Or was that seaweed?

btw...I edited it with emoticons. I think they describe the SB beautifully.

b

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
personaly, I would have folded preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an inside joke right? Surely you aren't folding KQo shorthanded in the CO after everyone folded to you.... right?

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
Table just got shorthanded as 3 players got up to ... play chicken tic tac toe.(which is funny to watch, btw, just how stupid some people actually play that game)

[/ QUOTE ]

No way man, I haven't been able to make it down to play live for a few weeks, but heard about the chicken on the radio. If it is still there next time I come down, I have to do it at least once for novelty value... or are you saying that some of the 10/20 players can't at least tie the chicken? That would be pretty sad.. lol.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
or are you saying that some of the 10/20 players can't at least tie the chicken? That would be pretty sad.. lol.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was in a 20/40 last week where two guys were trying to work out optimal strategy for tic-tc-toe. They were having trouble. This is high on the list of signs that you are at a good table.

[bernie]

If you saw the thread in small stakes, you'll see part of the joke.

I responded saying he should've folded to my turn bet.

b

[anatta]

I would check to him on the turn. Since I have nothing, if he bets, I would fold. The pot would have 5.5 big bets in it when it gets back to me on the turn. I have king high. End of hand.

However, betting the turn to see what is up is a decent aggressive option IMO. Slavics raise says he has a big pair that he is slowplaying (good flop to slowplay), or that he decided to check his ace overcard on the flop, he thinks its good on the turn and wants the free showdown. In fact, he is right, his AQ or whatever is good. Or maybe he caught a J on turn, who knows, who cares, you have king high.

So I suppose if you really want to you can three-bet the turn and hope he lays down. If he calls, fire again see if that does the trick (also you'll see how much money you can lose with king high). Or just fold to his turn raise. Or call his turn raise and then fire on the river.

Again, I would check the turn and fold if he bet.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I would check to him on the turn. Since I have nothing, if he bets, I would fold. The pot would have 5.5 big bets in it when it gets back to me on the turn. I have king high.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is your inducing a bet on the turn by doing this.

He has a wide range of hands, but far from random. He could have just A high. The J could've hit him. I didn't think he had a big overpair as he'd likely have bet the flop. So it's whether the J hit him or he could be testing me with A high. However, with the weakie in there, I have to give him a little more credit for a hand. ( I still think there were 2 weakies, the 2nd folded a little faster than the first which left me stuck to make the decision to call. I remember not being too happy about that.)

I folded to the turn raise after a little thought. I was really hoping the weakie would've called it to make my fold easier.

He ended up having T9s and turned a str8flush draw. I didn't put him on that low a holding 3 betting me preflop. The beauty of his play is, if I just call, he now has, in addition to his 21 outs, 3 more outs with Js if another one hits the river. Making him a favorite at this point.

If an A hits the river and I check, (looking back, if I called the turn raise, I'd have to bet if the A hits. At the time, I'm not sure I would've) that's another 4 outs he has to win.

Did I mention I hate having him on my left at times?

b